Prize Competition :
Explain the Labour Party's Position on a Scottish Referendum
Could someone please explain, in 50 words or less, the Labour Party position on a referendum?
Following the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament's meeting on Tuesday (6 May) their Convener, Duncan McNeil, said: "No one in the room had any complaints about the decision that has been taken and we are now in a position where, as a group, we will not vote down any Referendum Bill that comes into the Parliament. That's the change in the Labour group's position today." Wendy Alexander told us "I was delighted that at the Labour group today not a single colleague advocated the position that we should walk into the lobbies and vote down Scotland's right to choose."
Previously Labour's position was that it would oppose an attempt by Alex Salmond's SNP to hold a referendum in 2010 on freeing Scotland from Westminster rule. Now their position is that it will all come down to "timescale" and "wording". Some of them are even saying they will vote against a referendum bill. The Labour Group came out of a meeting today looking sullen and refused to answer direct questions. They have u-turned again. Guido will give a copy of the best book on how to win a referendum - "White Elephant - How the North East Said No" - to anyone who can explain, definitively the Labour Party's position on a Scottish referendum in less than 50 words. Answers in the comments please.
73 comments:
Simple ,no,no,yeh,no yeh,yeh no,yeh,no maybe.
"Aye, but nae, but aye but nae, but aye......" (ad nauseam until you get 50 words).
Send the hard-back version, please. Ta.
Yeah but no but yeah but no er who knows?
Because they are only bothered abour proportional representation and as so many of the losers have their noses in the troughs, the only way is -- to give the jocks their land back, way to go jocks, I still love ya, and force us to realize that a one party state is pants, power corrupts etc, forcing the hand to the PR system, intransigence, no questions asked, political class win, subsumation into Europe by the back door. Napolean & Hitler 1 Betty & Blighty 0.
Or they really are very stupid schoolboys.
“I actually did vote for it before I voted against it.”
cf John Kerry, 2004
Policy position: under large oak desk with fat fumbly fingers in sad saggy ears.
Umm...
Labour have done the right thing by increasing personal Allowances.
IT WAS SO OBVIOUSLY the RIGHT THING to do. IT is the CONSERVATIVE WAY.
BUT WHY the FLYING FUCK DIDN'T DAVE DEMAND THIS !!!!!!
I FUCKING despair at DAVE and BOY GEORGE.
We want the Scots to think we favour a referendum so we can get enough seats to cling on in Westminster while at the same time persuading the English that we oppose one. Maybe. We blame the media for not reporting exactly what we want them too. Once we decide what this is. This may change. Probably.
mibbes aye, mibbes naw
You put your left foot in,
You put your left foot out;
You put your left foot in,
And you shake it all about.
You do the nosey-pokey,
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about!
Our policy depends wholly on perceived short-term political advantage. Within this framework we will oppose any timetable for a referendum that the opportunistic SNP proposes. We will renege on our support should the fuss about the EU referendum gain too much traction using the Calman Commission excuse (fig leaf). QED.
Obviously this is a clear case of .......
"no INTENTIONAL mis-speaking"
Labour clearly have no idea what is going on or what to do about it.
So busy covering their arses and trying to grab headlines while they do it.
It would appear they have got their wires crossed and are grabbing their arses and are attempting to cover the headlines.
Easy . . . and in lots less than 50 words :
‘Fuck the lot of you’
or, in its short form –
FUCK YOU
"Our position is clear and unwavering; we follow the recommendations of the most recent focus group"
On a related note, the £ 2.7bn funding of the 10p tax fiasco - how is that to be funded? Let me guess - from the fuel duty/fuel VAT windfall. Round and round we go.
Gordon and Wendy go into St James Park and vandalise the place by plucking a flower from the grass.
We want a referendum
We don't want a referendum
We want a referendum
We don't want a referendum
"I win" exclaims Gordon - and almost breaks into a smile.
Well, when we flip the coin, sometimes it comes up heads and sometimes tails. But when we get a best-of-five we'll let you know.
There is no explanation because there is no position. They may present a 'position' when a political advantage presents itself, or possibly not. Possibly a position will present itself. Politically this position will be the one that positions them most apeallingly to whichever part of the public they need to pusuade. Presently they will appeal to the punditry that their position was always presented consistently and publicly and has no conflict with previous positions. Possibly they had been misunderstood and that, to be clear, this present position was the one that they always promoted. It's a practical position that lets them get the politics right. Possibly.
Guido,
I quote scottish cult blog celebrity and committed socialist, Councillor Terry Kelly;
Having spent a year strutting around Holyrood like a brutal prison guard, with a sycophantic anti Labour media urging on the bully.
Salmond (the spiv) has been forced to go "homeward to think again" following his accusations that Wendy Alexander was useless, that her position was untenable, that she should resign etc. etc. he is suddenly challenged by her to 'put up or shut up' and he 'shuts up'
For more reasoned commentary on scottish politics, go to http://councillorterrykelly.blogspot.com/
I think it's only fair to let Terry have the book if this wins, but I give no guarantee that he'll be able to read it.
Heads we want a referendum tails we don't - best of three?
The Scottish National Party has already bought the allegiance of most Scots, therefore Wendy Alexander has resolved desperately to gain an electoral advantage with "promises" which neither she nor her party are in a position to deliver. Right now, desparate, Scottish and National Labour have little to lose.
"Whether there is any perceived advantage or not to Labour from calling a referendum on Scotland's place in the Union, we will fearlessly place Party self interest before the interests of voters or any other group with valid points of view, especially when it makes us look more unreelectable."
“LABOUR DOUBLES TAX RATE FOR MILLIONS”. Millions more will have a marginal tax rate of 40% -the old Supertax
"We don't want one but if we vote one down the SNP will slaughter us in 2011. We'll vote for it in the end but try and buy time/leverage by spinning around it. If we can we'll get it held sooner, but fat chance the SNP will do that."
Think that's about 50.
In other news, Wendy will be leaving to "pursue other interests" in the very very near future...
"We've got to blame the tories for this somehow!
But how?"
"Nurse, the screens, quickly!"
The Labour Party position on the Scottish Referendum can be accrately described in the words of Gerry Sutcliffe, Minister for Booze and Northern Serial Killers: -
"My comments do not reflect my views".
OT. Frank Field has done the honourable thing and apologised for telling the truth. Let's hope we hear no more of this insidious veracity, which was beginning like a cancer through the body politic. Only lies can sustain a government in power, as everyone must now accept and understand.
Devolve Westminster power in core heartlands to screw Tory Governments. Scottish Parliament (75% Yes), Welsh Assembly (50.3% Yes), North East (78% Against). SNP win power. Independence? Permanent Tory power at Westminster without Scots Labour MPs. Stop a referendum yes result by forcing a vote before a Tory victory in 2010.
Never mind their position; this should be ours:
Whadda we want?
Jocks out!
When do we want it?
NOW!!!!!!
[Overheard from Wendy Alexander earlier today] "Both the Pwime Minithter Gordon Bwown and I are *determined* to expothe the hollowneth of the Eth Enn Peeeeeth bwoken pwomitheth on the theperatithm of an independenth wefewendum".
Scottish Labour want a referendum to prove that they are more dumb than English Labour
We absolutely do not support a referendum on Scottish independence as we cannot afford to lose all those jock MPs, except that we do support it in an attempt to wrongfoot Alex Salmond.
Gordon's word on all this is final, except when Wee Wendy disagrees with him, in which case she doesn't except when she does.
Och aye the noo, nae bother.
Simple
We want a referendum that results in maintaining the union and keeps English money subsidising Scotland. We don’t want to lose the many noble self sacrificing Scottish Labour MP’s who keep us in power. We certainly don’t want English votes on English matters.
When does England have referendum on an English parliament and self rule ?
Where can you get the inflatable white elephants from ?
It's quite simple. It's the revival of Third Way politics (copyright NuLabour/Bill Clinton 1997).
This means that Labour is now both for a referendum and against one - so they can always trim their sails to go which ever way they want and pretend that's what they wanted all along.
So boring to be on one side or the other. Why not be on both?
On even days we are in favour, on odd days we are against; but as to what we are for or against we haven`t a clue.
It is the same as it was ten days ago, before Bendy Wendy went bananas. (There you are, nice and simple and thirty five words to spare.)
the labour position on scotland is the same as its position on everything;
new labour's interests come first and Britain's come second.
er, that's it.
never mind the the book Guido, what's a guy got to do to get a t-shirt around here.
In this situation, as sure as I am that this policy, this actually policy, and let me be very clear about this.; we have advocated this position clearly and repeatedly, before and even before that.When I explained my position on this very forum you recall, only a few weks ago...etc etc.
I think this just about covers it;
Labour supports a referendum on Scottish Independence, but only when it seems likely the answer will be NO to breaking up the Union and embarrasses Salmond. We reserve, unreservedly, the right to withdraw our support at any time if the answer to the question ever changes to a likely yes.
And in exactly 50 words! Does that give me more chance of winning?
Its political "Twister" every day they spin the dial then try to fit every position. The only problem is they are playing in the dark with handcuffs.
We want a referendum (but only ont he condition that it never actually happens)
2010:
Conservatives run Westminster.
SNP referendum bill in Holyrood.
Defeated, SNP win Scottish election in 2011
Goes through, SNP win referendum.
Wendy panics and tries to bounce SNP and Brown into referendum now.
Gordon dithers and fears Scottish referendum means Lisbon referendum
U-turns and ducking and weaving all round.
Wendy, Wendy, really quite bendy,
How does your policy go?
With referendum bills, against Gordon's will
And Labour MSP's all in a row!
“Guido Fawkes is the man who wants to be both tough on crime and have no 42 day detention."
“Guido is the man who is a shallow salesman and never addresses the substance.”
"I ask Mr Fawkes what he intends to do on the Scottish issue.. I get no reply."
Gordon Brown's response to Mr Fawkes question 'What is your policy on a referendum' 13/5/2008
Altogether now, swaying drunkenly, can of Tennant's in hand:
O clown of Scotland
When will ye change your mind again?
That referendum
You said to “bring it on”
Ignoring your leader.
Proud Gordon’s barmy!
You’ve sent him homeward
Tae think again
The votes are gone now
And ratings at an all-time low
The argument’s lost now
It’s every man for himself
So ditch your leader.
Proud Gordon’s barmy!
Just send him homeward
Tae think again
PS: I always admired this line from the Scottish Lab 2007 manifesto: "strengthen the economy through support for Scottish whisky" (sic)
Labour Party Nu-Speak or just old fashioned student politics; like returning to the womb really.
"No one in the room had any complaints about the decision that has been taken =
All have been browbeaten into silence in the name of Unity.
"we are now in a position where, as a group, we will not vote down any Referendum Bill that comes into the Parliament."=
Sounds kindsa united and positive but means nothing.
I can't be bothered with the rest of it but for Scotland, well, we've had their oil so they might as well go; just a pity that it had to be over such a petty issue of some Blair bimbos lack of nous.
Short term bonus will be that Gordon will become a foreigner and thus not able to be PM ( I hope ! ), evicted from England along with the other Scots Mafia.
Wendy Alexander:
"My love for her runs down my leg"
- Shakespeare.
“Big chief in Browning Street say no! Little Chief Wendy Red Face support referendum now because we know Scotland lost cause for main parties. Wendy Tax cutter too! Imagine English stop hating Labour when Barnet formula stops being paid no more hovering up cash when Scotland say Yes!”
50 word for ya there.
Man who wait till enemy chooses battle, sure to get sporran set on fire.
Man who call battle now look better and have at least haggis in hell's chance of winning, before enemy fully armed.
Man who not know this not long PM, ah so the noo.
It's really quite simple:
Labour will support a Referendum Bill. Unless they abstain. Or vote against it.
Wee Wendy wonker
Sent Gordo a stonker
"Bring it on", she bravely said
And Gordo promptly hung his head...
And said.... NO!
His strangled word was o'er ruled
By those he counted as his brood
For MSPs of Labour bent
Have wonder if the Union's spent...
Screams poor Gordo, NOOOOOO!
Jimbo, with apologies to every poet ever.
"It's like banging your head against a brick wall" Gordon said, banging Wendy's head against a brick wall. Wendy realised what he was getting at.
Read Stephen Hawking's Brief History of Time on quantum mechanics, relativity and the need for a unifying theory to bridge the two. That's easy going by comparison. Politics, like time is relative - we have Gordon politics and we have Wendy politics, but they are the same...apparently!
I might have had a go if you had asked us to explain nuclear physics, or time/space continuum, or even the flux capacitor. But this? Christ knows? Too difficult.
2 verses of William T McGonagall -he wasn't quite bad enough to be a Wendy spin doctor!
Miserable Gordon of North Queensferry way!
Alas! I am very sorry to say
Your credibility has been blown away!
On a Sabbath day of 2008,
Which will be remember'd as sealing your fate.
'Twas about noon on that day so bright,
When Wendy spoke and uttered such shite,
And the scorn came pouring down,
Bringing ridicule on the diminutive clown,
And the Demon of the Media seem'd to say-
"I'll blow down the New Labour Party."
TEN PEE OR NOT TEN PEE....er, what was that? evo, revo, devolution/independence? Where?, when? Oh no, not our homeland. We will be out of a job if they talk like that. Who said that? Er.. Not Bendy!. Who wrote her speech? Sack them.
It's quite simple really, their policy is based on the principles of quantum particles, where a particle can be in multiple states at the same time, add to that the Wendy 'Heisenberg' Alexander uncertainty principle and you have Labours policy which allows them to be for and against a referendum at any one time.
It's simple.
Some in the Labour Party (let's call them 'Wendy') thought that others in the party (let's call them 'Gordon') were a wee bit slow to back the SNP into a corner. Didn't matter on what - the Wendys were frustrated cos the Gordons didn't play a political masterstroke. Then the Wendys tried, missed and the master stroke hit the Gordons by mistake. Ouch.
And now, the end is near;
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I'll say it clear,
I'll state my case, of which Im certain.
I've lived a life thats full.
I've traveled each and evry highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Regrets, I've had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.
I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.
I've loved, I've laughed and cried.
I've had my fill; my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.
To think I did all that;
And may I say - not in a shy way,
No, oh no not me,
I did it my way.
For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!
Apologies to Mr Sinatra
Good long-gone-not-forgotten Frankie Howerd could have done it:
"No,no,no,no,thrice nay, no ooooh no, no no-no-no-nooooo ......."
We believe strongly in anything our focus groups tel us we should be believing strongly in. Or vis versa. Hence our determination...(Jeez that's enough already.)
`Twas in the merry month of May in the year 2008
"Let`s have a referendum", said Wendy Alexander The Grate
"Bring it on" she boasted, with a rush of blood to the head
But Gordon went and spoiled it telling us "that`s not what she said"
So next wee bendy Wendy and her numptie labour crew
Held another meeting and decided what to do
They`ll vote for it, but no blank cheque - that is their position
But don`t ask awkward questions about the Calman Commission
Competition Entry:
"It's simple. The Labour Party's position on a Scotch referendum is whatever they think will gain them short-term political advantage without tearing the party apart."
P.S. Why are the English not allowed to say whether they think the Scotch should remain part of the Union?
Fucked !
If Hadrian's Wall was a fence they'd be sitting on it.
A minister responds to Guido:
"I am clear that our position on a referendum is straightforward. The Scottish people - indeed, the English people as well - are entitled to believe that their views on the Union are taken into account when we frame policy. Which is to say that the devolved parliament of Scotland has every right to assess the practicalities of a referendum. And also the English, er, British Parliament likewise. This may in due course lead to more substantive discussions. In time, consensus may be reached, but these issues are not straightforward; clarity is hard to define, let alone articulate. But let us be clear; were the Scottish Nationalists to promise a referendum to their people, and then renege in the most cavalier and dishonest fashion - well, that would be the most breathtaking example of cynicism"
Bring it on
That's three words
SNP are delaying so that - they hope - they will have an immediately unpopular Tory Govt as a back drop. Makes you wonder doesn't it?
If Alex Salmond can see that then why can't the great british electorate (and Gordon Brown)?
Has anyone considered holding a referendum on English Independance?
That would have the advantage of getting rid of the Leeks too. Then tell the UK Parliament to fuck off out of Westminster - perhaps they could set up a Celtic fringe house-of-hot-air on the Isle of Mann.
Can you imagine the SNP, Plaid, DUP and Sinn Fein as the biggest parties in a parliament? It would be hilarious (for English spectators living it up in über-rich England.)
The more I write the better this idea seems.
God, I'd so love to shove the whole of the North Sea oil reserve up Salmond's blubbery arse, tell him it's all his now, he's welcome to it so long as we don't have to hear his smug posturing. (Doesn't he remind one of Mussolini? Third rate dictator.)
Independant England will be wealthy beyond imagining, a Tory bastion, Boris and PM Dave battling to cut tax and waste the most. We'll all be rich, rich I tell you, as rich as astronauts.
I love global warming too. The English climate has become almost ideal now.
Sorry for going on at length, but I fear now that my colleagues may have overloaded my morning coffee again to see me rant for their amusement.
But I'm right.
And did those feet, in ancient time, walk upon England's mountains green?
Wee sleekit cowran tim'rous Wendy
Thou hast decided to be a' friendly
tae an idea of a plebiscite, and soon,
despite the wrath of yon Mister Broon
an' leave thy Party all a ruin
wi' a' the u-turns thy is doin'
It's pretty simple.
This is your arse and this is your elbow... or is it the other way around?
Actually this explains it better
http://clairwil.blogspot.com/2008/05/poor-old-labour.html
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