Jim Murphy's "Lines to Take"
The all-party "I Want a Referendum" campaign had a mass lobby of MPs at parliament today. The campaign is really getting under the skin of the government and particularly ministers in marginals.
If those people who travelled to London discover that they all were getting the same answer from their respective MPs they should not be surprised. The Minister for Europe, Jim Murphy, sent out an "idiots guide" to Labour MPs on what "lines to take" when dealing with constituents who expect an answer as to why Labour is not sticking to the manifesto commitment to a referendum.
Obviously these are tricky questions to answer, Murphy has come up with answers full of sophistry. The bottom line is, Brown is breaking Blair's manifesto promise...Download Jim Murphy's "PLP Lines to Take"
53 comments:
Did someone mention 'Lines'?
I'm up for bit of that!
I like lines I do. Fucking love 'em.
I do a couple a night.
Sends me fucking screwy, does lines.
Dave.
Funny how Labour MP's are so ready to resort to quoting Conservative MP's at the drop of a hat - is it because the drivel from their own side of the house is so eminently forgettable?
If Murphy thinks those answers will convince anyone he is a bigger idiot than i thought. These muppet politicians dont seem to understand that in the real world a LIE is a LIE and the public all see this deception for what it is.
the public KNOW the govt is lying. end of story
Interesting how Mr Murphy accepts that nobody believes a word that Labour Ministers say on the matter of the EU by restricting his quoting from UK politicians to Conservatives.
I started to read it but had to stop and vomit when I got to Ken Clark's quote.
Who do these shits think we are?
It’s difficult to find words to express my utter contempt for the Labour and LibDem MPs who say one thing to get elected and then do the opposite in Parliament. This is even worse on the issue of an international treaty which once ratified is far more difficult for a subsequent to repeal than an unpopular law. Frankly the politicians have crossed a Rubicon here. The option now for restoring democracy is to leave the EU and I will vote for no party in any election that does not make a creditable commitment to do this.
Pitiful - as is the attendance by the conservatives in the House for the (admittedly co-called) 'debate' on the constitution. They are completely out of touch with the strength of feeling over this monumental betrayal.
any referendum would be ignored anyway so why all the fuss?
better off out!
Parliament: "the group of elected politicians who make the laws for their country".
UK Parliament: "the group of elected politicians who allow other people outside the country to make the laws for their country".
European Parliament: "the group of elected politicians who watch whilst other unelected people make the laws for everyone's countries".
Did I miss anything?
ministers in marginals and not so marginal are dead in the water if they vote against a promised referendum.
get your P45s ready labour MPs and any tory Europhile scum youre going to need them!
the gravy train is about to come to a grinding halt for you porcine and your families.
Since even the ghastly Valery Giscard [no, I won't allow him the pretentious d'Estaing that he spuriously awarded himself] has said that the Treaty is, to all intents and purposes, the same as the rejected Constitution that he had drafted, Labour should but won't do the honourable thing by standing by its manifesto pledge.
Still, it gives the Tories a lovely big stick to beat them with at the next election. All they have to do to discredit the entire Labour Manifesto is point to the unblushing way in which they have reneged on the biggest part of the last one.
So, heads the Tories win and tails Labour loses. Trebles all round, I think.
Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of politicians refering to the indigenous form of government here as 'democracy' and then going off to the Near and Middle East to inflict it through the barrel of a gun.
We don't want the EU, we don't want wars against imaginary enemies and we don't want our country flooded with third world immigrants which has the effect of increasing serious crime and reducing the national i.q. We need to have what we want or we need to take drastic action by obtain it.
Out of interest what is the divorce rate for MPs who lose marginal seats?
Its very 'convenient' that the BBC film crew were on hand to cover the 'plane stupid' protest isnt it?
The BBC were just a little too pre prepared with a crew there and commentators ready in the studio and had voice contact with the demonstrators at once! Very slick BUT just a little too slick to be chance?
Were the BBC and 'plane stupid' in contact with each other beforehand and was this a setup job?
The BBC newsreaders were gushing in their praise of the protesters one said that it was a"fantastic coup" and another called it an "incredible feat". Am I alone in thinking that this was another example of cynical and crooked manipulation by the NuLiebour serving BBC? After all it was very convenient that they didnt have to cover the 'I want a referendum' protest.
Who helped the protesters past security? Who opened the security doors for them? Who carried through the heavy and bulky posters past the security and police checkpoints? It looks like the BBC had prior knowledge and that the protesters were helped by people on the inside.
All very convenient eh? All a bit too complex and well timed to be done without expert help I think?
If, following the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, the EU were to set up a Commission for the Unification of National Treaties then I would be only too happy to call out that latter body's name whenever encountering any of those politicians who are currently so studiously ignoring the wishes of the people.
In fact I probably will anyway.
Everybody is wasting their time on this - the government isn't going to grant a referendum and will ratify the Treaty of Lisbon irrespective of what the electorate think.
It's a case of "Am I bovvered;do I look bovered;is my face bovvered; not bovvered though" So all you small people can stop meddling with your "betters" and get back on your buses and go back to your irrelevant lives. These are matters that are best dealt with by your betters !
Any future Labour Manifesto obviously isn't fit for purpose other than being ripped into small squares and used in the appropriate room of the house.
Personally I don't care whether the majority vote against the Treaty or for it. This is a matter of principle and trust between the Electorate and their Government. How can anyone trust a word of a Labour Government ever again ?
"The Treaty of Lisbon is an amending Treaty like the Single European Act, Maastricht, Amsterdam and Nice. As such, it does not involve major new constitutional arrangements, nor does it involve a significant shift in the balance of power. For these reasons, the government is following the standard established scrutiny procedures for such amending Treaties."
So why did Labour promise a referendum on Maastricht then?!
In preparing an idiot's guide for Labour MPs you can't deny that he knows his audience.
PS - Hope this was leaked by a Labour MP.
I see the knuckle dragging mongs on the Labour back benches can't be trusted to come up with their own arguments. No real surprise, I'm only a bit shocked that some of them can actually read the letter. I've seen better educated rhesus monkeys than some of the scum from the Scottish branch of the PLP.
So they aren't having an election because it undermines democracy? So why did they propose one in the first place?
interesting cassandra could be a nu labour ploy to deflect EU referendum rally, jim murphys lines suggest a little concern "try and extinguish any fires eh jim"
dog bites are up , well if you torment and provoke a well behaved animal enough , its within its rights to bite the snotty hand that is its incompetant master.
so to PMQs review
back drop for gordon was a tinged with blue, and we had the second outing of the the gentle low land scottish lilt, of shortbreads, smouldering peat fires and crofters cottages and a wee dram of the warm stuff.
mr cameron did a quality more polished approach and did indeed take up an important question that is in the publics mind .
mr clegg had to endure gordons fun remark on "welcome back" his question was interesting , but the he wasted it on critcising the houses methods and practices.
the red despot spotter is now begining to think mr clegg does like debate because he does not like loseing , consensus is very dangerous when it is not arrived at by the rigour of opposition voices.
despite the more gentle leader sounding gordon , he is still adopting the none answer ,and even answering the previous question so as to spoil the potency of the current. however despite the temper change the public still read him as evasive and untrustworthy . he seems to be forever covering messes up with bucket loads of spurious sentementality , we are doing this , reviewing that, none have which ever ammounts to anything other than paperwork that is increasingly privvy to labour mps only.
being as jonah points are difficult to award now , becasue he has adopted a different tone, the fooling of the british public by the none answer only adds to the belief that his very scared that his record can be attacked for its failiures. of course he sees it a clever parlimentary tactics , the public read that his lack of willingness for debate shows that he would not be able to handle it , in other words unless he has his brief and army of supporters/writers he could not do it .
he still makes fantasic gaffs , says labour wants a united kingdom , but then does not allow full debate or a referendum (i distinctly heard him say "shut it" in one of the latter questions whilst the camera was another mp).
says he wants democray but denys debate and dare not answer cameron fully and thereby show cameron as the more competant and adpet leader .
the need for change grows and so does the public opinion that nu labour can no longer offer it, can he keep up the pretence , for a little while i think , but what he has done far makes any annoucements suspect and unreliable as representing the people , you know those people who want a referndum !!
Who is paying for this - the gummint (for whom the referendum was a manifesto commitment/promise/whatever, or NuLab, for whom the idea of asking for a plebiscite would be an anathema? If the former, i.e. a govt bill, can someone please explain to a simle Tuscan peasant how that works?
Funny how Batman on Buckingham Palace - protesting about something even more important - got a considerably worse press than this lot.
Mrs Dale's story about viewers bombarding Sky with messages until they pulled the live coverage of the green idiots is most heartening.
so what is the EU?
from a soviet perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU
a quick 10 min guide to the EU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siweqKqqoZs&feature=related
A Petition has just been proposed in Parliament by Bob Spink on behalf of constituents of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath who declared a formal poll taken in the Prime Minister's constituency shows over 80% in favour of a referendum on the EU Constitution......come on you Scots....
O/T but The Mogambo Guru is wonderful on the inflation coming our way.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JB28Dj01.html
Did the taxpayer end up paying for this document or the labour party? How much civil servant SPAD time went on preparing and researching it?
Can anyone throw any light on which UK bank is said today to be NR mark II? or this this just rumour mongering?
Sick of the endless lies
I want OUT, OUT, OUT.
Lots of fodder for Traitors' Gate in this parliament. Labour scum.
It was a long queue! When we managed to get in we asked our two faced Tory MP if he would support a post-ratification referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.............
Mr Cassandra - precisely, no accident, can't have the grubby off-message proles prattling on about promises or democracy, or any of that outdated shit. Certainly can't have the fuckers being filmed by my Gay Gordo BC No,no,no on with the project - you know it makes sense, or you bloody soon will do when I get Bendover-Blair's goons to hammer a few skulls, what are you all , closet Countryside Marchers? I have been unelected to carry through a programme of giving the country away to the new employers of President Bliar, and he's promised me, it will be my turn next...oh, fuck me what have I done.
Come on Guido! It's been downhill since you nailed Hain. This week's comments seem to have come from a bunch of semi-literate right wing nutters. You put up the stories and the responses are just abusive - no humour, no point. Comment moderation on, perhaps?
Saw that Murphy speaking to what they grandly call a select committee; some gang of Oily Vazes, pompous, mouthy little jobsworth Hitlers, all in cheap suits, all playing at being oh-so-clever, lawyerly scrutineers, these, all of them, "misled" over Iraq by the deadbeat, alky pornographer and QueenBitch, Campbell and his bumboy Scarlett of the unintelligent services but pretending, here, to be masters of the detail, wherein, tediously, like the cliche-monger, hoist with his own ubiquitous petard, the Devil always lurks; Murphy wiped the floor with them, functioning on an altogether higher level. Not saying much, of course, backbenchers not the smartest of phonies.
A lean and hungry type, he looks like a Jock Toilets Maguire, only smarter and without the bits of Andrex round his mouth and without the eye make-up. Murphy, however, in his battle instructions to the troops over-eggs the pudding; this Lisbon treaty is the best thing that ever happened; it is so staggeringly good for the country that, obvious as it is, the people are too stupid to agree and cannot, therefore, be trusted to vote the right way in a referendum.
Praying in aid, further, the great flouncer herself, Heseltine, Ken Fatman, the drug peddler and boy-man William Hague, Murphy indicates quite how weak is his position, barrel scrapings like this trio butter no parsnips in the real world, only in the incestuous knocking shop that is Westminster. Does anybody give a fuck what Lady Heseltine says, jumped-up, conceited, narcissistic cheques-in-the-post artist, what a prick.
Murphy is obviously good at impressing the fuckwits on the backbenches, but let him step outside for a minute, see what happens among decent honest citizens.
An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician are shown a pasture with a herd of sheep, and told to put them inside the smallest possible amount of fence. The engineer is first. He herds the sheep into a circle and then puts the fence around them, declaring "a circle will use the least fence for a given area, so this is the best solution." The physicist is next. She creates a circular fence of infinite radius around the sheep, and then draws the fence tight around the herd, declaring, "This will give the smallest circular fence around the herd." The mathematician is last. After giving the problem a little thought, he puts a small fence around himself and then declares,"I define myself to be on the outside."
I had one of these about a month ago.. very useful it was too.
Will you vote to support a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
THE BRITISH WAY IS ALL ABOUT FAIRNESS. HAVING A REFERENDUM IS UNFAIR TO PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO LAZY OR TOO STUPID TO VOTE.MANY OF OUR CITIZENS CAN'T EVEN READ. OUR WAY OF DOING IT FOR THEM IS THE FAIREST.
Will you vote to support a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty
I WILL BE UNFORTUNATELY ABSENT ON THAT DAY.
Ireland is holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty
YES, BUT THEY ARE IRISH. DON'T YOU REMEMBER ALL THOSE JOKES ABOUT THEM? YOU DON'T WANT TO FOLLOW THE OPINIONS OF KERRYMEN DO YOU?
Why are you going back on your manifesto pledge to hold a referendum?
WE HAVE PUT IN RED LINES. LOOK HERE IS THE ACTUAL PEN THAT THE PRIME MINISTER USED TO DRAW THE LINES.. SEE ITS RED.
Can you tell me what you see as the concrete differences between the Lisbon Treaty and the EU Constitutional Treaty, rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005?
YES. QUITE CLEARLY THAT TREATY WAS WRITTEN IN FRENCH AND DUTCH.
THIS ONE HAS SOME ENGLISH WORDS IN IT. DID I MENTION THE RED LINES, GORDON USED A RULER WHEN HE DREW THEM.
and a final killer argument..
THE PRIME MINISTER CLEARLY AND SUCCESSFULLY FOUGHT TO Remove reference to the symbols of the EU, notably the EU flag, anthem, motto and Europe Day – the Constitution gave them a specific Treaty article.
WE GET TO KEEP OUR OWN FLAG AND SONGS..AND NO EXTRA BANK HOLIDAY.A MASTERSTROKE.
DID I MENTION THE RED LINES? THEY ARE FANTASTICALLY NEAT. THE GERMAN ONES ARE ALL WOBBLY WHERE SHE HAD A CHIP IN THE EDGE OF THE RULER.
THE SPANISH DIDN'T HAVE A PEN AND SO THEY HAVE NONE. AND THE ITALIANS.. THEY USED GREEN INK... GREEN.. ITS LAUGHABLE REALLY..NO ONE WILL TAKE GREEN LINES SERIOUSLY, WILL THEY ?
Have just subjected myself to 10 mins of BBC news. Well they did not let down the cynic, and certainly not the mad conspiracy theorist.
We are told that the days of easy credit are well and truly over. As if we could not have worked out this for ourselves. Which we mostly all did, way before then BBC even mentioned the possibility of such a thing taking place.
But what the BBC did not get to mention. Was how much if any our own government and the BBC come to think about it, had to do with this very much home grown, man made disaster.
We are instructed that its a world credit crunch as if it all simply came from out of space. Those nasty green bug-eyed monsters from planet Saturn or some such place.
They may or may not be bug-eyed monsters from somewhere but they mostly look like BRITISH BANKSTERS and their bribed and/or brainwashed BBC editors and government MPs.
Still I seriously do not think the British public are quite so stupid quite yet, to believe the government is not responsible. After all they took all the credit in more ways then one when it was there to be had. And now they must therefore take the blame.
What should scare the shit out of people is that we did not get too many warnings from the Tories or the Lib/Dems either. Warnings about something that was as sure to happen as Monday follows Sunday. This could be explained by a need not to be seen to be 'talking down the economy,' but this would be pushing charitable thinking too far IMO.
ATLAS shrugged and thought he would like to say he told you all so. But then thought. People are going to suffer enough BIG TIME already, so best not to rub it in right now.
Murphy's Law.
What Can Go Wrong Will Go Wrong.
Jim Murphy's Law.
What Goes Wrong, He Makes Worse.
What Guido fails to mention is that these sort of briefs appear every day on every debate that takes place, so that Labour MPs are able to communicate the basics to constituents. Written and paid for by the PLP Office, I suspect the Tories do exactly the same, but with a different agenda.
European Union Announcement
European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
Jim sooner or later youre gonna have to call that general election and when you do the people will remember how Labour betrayed them and most of your labour buddies will be thrown on the dole for listening to you.
The public will remember for decades what you are doing today and how you decieved them on the EU, your next manifesto will be considered as unfit to even wipe someones arse let alone count as anything you promise to do.
your party will self destruct and implode far, far worse than the Tory party ever did, because you caused far more long term damage.
membership of the party is dying and local activists are no longer interested, the party is over Labour boys, you had the chance to make Britain great - you blew it.
go ahead and hammer the last few nails in this once great countries coffin because for each one of those nails we the people are hammering another fifty in yours.
youve got 2 short years left then half of you Labour traitors are gonna have to pack up your things and tell the wife you lost your job!
you could have done the right thing by the people of this country but instead you sold out the people of this country.
we will never forget or forgive who sold us out and we will never let you forget it either.
enjoy you long, long unpopular stay in the wilderness.
Presumably they need such guidance because they can't work it out for themselves. Too busy filling in their expenses claims, banking the fat cheques and burying the evidence...
Was the demo reported anywhere on TV? I didn't see it on the evening bulletins.
Have you seen the ots of little piggies with their little piggie wives... the words of the late John Lennon seem to come to my mind whenever I read about swine that 'run' this country.
To the butchers with 'em and in the spirit of multiculturism they so adore let some bearded cunt cut their throats while they are still conscious.
Good, a chance for real change....
First the MPs
Then the Ministers
And the Civil Servants
Plus the lobbyists
Then on to the institutions....
About time they all acted like responsible adults and not seven year olds in suits.
Who gave the roof top protestors a helping hand? Where was Murphy when the lights went out? The WWAR protest got no publicity because of those runway protestors Qui Bono?
It's in the wrong font to be a PLP briefing. It also doesn't read like a PLP briefing - sure you haven't been had Guido?
In order to trot out the official line it will be necessary for members of the PLP to read and understand this helpful circular. That may be the stumbling block. Some of them have difficulty even reading out the patsy questions thrust into their toad-like hands by the whips' office.
Brown-noser,
Guido altered the fonts and layout when he extracted it from the MS Word document to convert to PDF. Word has a nasty habit of leaving identifying data.
Thank you Guido for this clarification.
It's nice to know some twat Researcher somewhere is leaking to you, I'm sure they'll find their employment rather less enjoyable if the Tories come to power.
Can this be the SAME Jim Murphy who has benefited from the patronage of motor mogul ( and Wee Wendy Alexander donor) John McGuire of Phoenix Honda?
For the wifully ignorant Clegg re "Lisbon" being "measly & paltry":
Quotes (more):
Quotes
Lisbon Reform Treaty
"Only cosmetic changes have been made and the basic document remains the same." — Václav Klaus, Czech President, , in Hosposarske Noviny, 13th June 2007
(snip)
"We will put it to the British people in a referendum." — Gordon Brown, General Election Manifesto, 2005
"If we needed a referendum we would have one. But I think most people recognise that there is not a fundamental change taking place as a result of this amended treaty." — Gordon Brown, The UK Prime Minister, interviewed by the BBC, 24th September 2007
"A referendum now would bring Europe into danger. There will be no Treaty if we had a referendum in France, which would again be followed by a referendum in the UK." — Nicolas Sarkozy, French President, The Daily Telegraph, 14th November 2007
"The good thing is that all the symbolic elements are gone, and that which really matters – the core – is left." — Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Prime Minister of Denmark, in Jyllands-Posten, 25th June 2007
"They haven't changed the substance - 90 per cent of it is still there." — Bertie Ahern, Irish Prime Minister, Irish Independent, 24th June 2007
"The substance of the constitution is preserved. That is a fact." — Angela Merkel, German Chancellor, speech to the European Parliament, 27th June 2007
"There’s nothing from the original institutional package that has been changed." — Astrid Thors, Finnish Europe Minister, TV-Nytt, 23rd June 2007
"For Austria it was important to keep the essence, to keep the institutional side of it intact, and also to keep the Charter of Fundamental Rights. This is the essence, and we were able to safeguard that." — Ursula Plassnik, Autrian Foreign Minister, BBC 10 o'clock news, 7th September 2007
"A great part of the content of the European Constitution is captured in the new treaties." — José Zapatero, Spanish Prime Minister, El Pais, 23rd June 2007
"The good thing about not calling it a Constitution is that no one can ask for a referendum on it." — Giuliano Amato, former Italian Prime Minister and Vice-Chairman of the Convention which drew up the Constitution, speech to the London School of Economics, 20th February 2007
"Any future Labour Manifesto obviously isn't fit for purpose other than being ripped into small squares and used in the appropriate room of the house."
You'd wipe more on that off.
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