Do Emails Get Osborne Off the Hook?
Guido has been slow to comment because despite having asked Osborne's office for copies of the emails which Osborne claims get him off the hook on the non-declaration of third-party financial support for his staff, he hadn't seen them. Sam Coates' Red Box got them first.
From : BARRY, AldaSo nothing about third party funding of staff via CCHQ in the main email.
Sent: 06 December 2007 14:44
To: Da Costa, Nikki
Subject: Overlap
Good morning Nikki
I promised Mr McLoughlin written confirmation of the areas of interest where Members must register both with me and also, under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA), with the Electoral Commission.
I hope the following brief summary is helpful, but Mr McLoughlin might also like to consult the Electoral Commission for more detail. I usually speak to Rachel Savage on 020 7271 xxxx
The Electoral Commission is
interested in 'political donations'. Benefits personal to the Member (eg tickets to sporting events) are not of interest to them.
The areas of overlap are concentrated in Categories 4 (Sponsorship) and 6 (Overseas visits). In the case of the latter, their threshold is higher than ours - they do not require the registration of visits worth £1,000 or less.
There are also a few interests which we register under Category 5 (Gifts, benefits and hospitality (UK)) which are regarded by the Commission as political donations which need to be registered with them if they are worth more than £1,000 - car parking passes or web-site design (if worth more than £1,000) are examples of these.
Under PPERA, it is the responsibility of the Member to report appropriately to the Electoral Commission. It has recently become the practice of this office to advise Members to consult the Commission if it appears to us that an interest should be registered with them, but I must emphasise that this is purely informal arrangement and does not absolve Members from the responsibility for being aware of, and complying with, their obligations under the Act. Nor can this office advise, expect ingeneral terms, about the requirements of the Act.
This office and the Committee on Standards and Privileges are aware of some dissatisfaction among Members that they have to register the same interest twice. The Electoral Administration Act 2006 opens up the possibility of a 'one-stop shop' for reporting where the requirements overlap, and it is hoped that the House will, before too long, be given the opportunity to consider the implications of such a system and decide whether it wishes to implement it.
I hope this helps
Alda Barry
From: Da Costa, NikkiA simple acknowledgement.
Sent: 07 December 2007 11:03
To: BARRY, ALda
Subject: RE: Overlap
Thanks Alda.
This is very useful
Kind regards
Nikki
Nikki da Costa
Special Adviser to the Opposition Chief Whip
From : BARRY, AldaThe highlighted text appears to get Osborne off the hook. What do you think?
Sent: 07 December 2007 13:53
To: Da Costa, Nikki
Subject: RE: Overlap
Nikki
I think I misled you just now. The register deals with donations to a member's constituency association and not to central offices. Sorry.
Alda
60 comments:
As one of the disciples, Osbourne has divine immunity. He's off the hook.
I think it's all to bloody complicated for words. Why all these stupid layers and rules? Make one rule - publish details of all donations all the time. Publish them once at the point of receipt and that's it. Modern computerised accounting systems are cheap and easy to use, so no excuse then. And you sack loads of apppatchiks like BARRY, Alda (whover he bloody well is).
Tossers, the lot of them.
Osborne is in the clear. The BBC must be very disappointed.
Now let's get back to the real sleaze merchants: Brown, Hain, Alexander, Mendelson, Watt, Harman, etc etc.
Don't think Osborne was ever on the hook. The whole thing is just Labour whipping up a froth of synthetic indignation as a distraction from the machinations of the evil Orange One. But ConHome has a rather unfortunate take on it, which has aroused some adverse reaction from readers. A mistake by T Montgomery IMHO, giving ammunition to the enemy.
Who knows? But the fact that most of the media (apart from the BBC) don't give a toss about it, and remain focussed on Hain, speaks volumes.
Is Osborne the one with the mong kid?
OT: Could we have the comment boxes re-sizeable again, please?
Alda Barry is female and often enjoys a very good lunch, so it seems, she hangs out in the Strangers' Bar at the Commons. She has no friends.
How many stories do you need to receive from someone before you give them immunity from hounding?
You'd have been all over this like a rash a year ago, Guido.
No wonder Team Osborne has been boasting about how they have you in their pocket.
Anon 1.20.The only Mong round here is you. What a pathetic shower of morons you Nulab trolls are. The wheels are well and truly falling off your Balamory Bus and there`s nowt you can do about it. Ha ha ha. Roll on the next General Election and it`s P45 time for you lot. Useless shower of losers.
I'm not a lawyer, but, on the face of it it looks to me like he's safe... now we can get back to the business of ripping the orange ones balls off and feeding them to something with large teeth.
Anonymous 1:20 PM said...
"Is Osborne the one with the mong kid?"
I think that'd be your mother you fucking troll!
Anon @ 1:20pm
Is there any way of interpreting what you said other than in the context that you are an utter cunt.
To anonymous at 1:20 PM -
'Is Osborne the one with the mong kid?'
What the f*ck has a disabled child got to do with this thread?
Typical ZaNuLab trolls- diverting, stirring and muddying up the waters in any foul and dirty way possible to divert attention from their criminal and corrupt masters.
Whatever next - body snatching? Oh I forgot Browns already suggesting that.
Who cares?
Its not as if he spent the 500k on cocaine and whores.
As we all know, Mr Osborne has never had anything to do with either cocaine or whores.
OOO, HOLD ON, THATS AY LEAST PARTLY UNTRUE ISNT IT?
word verification
RACKwb hehehe
It could be that Ossie has been tripped up by badly drafted rules. To give him the benefit of any doubt it would seem that he did have knowledge of it and did make an attempt to legitimise it.
To try and be fair to Bronze Head could the same be applied?
I don't think so!
Keep trying Broon Broadcasting Company!
Perhaps Broon could get Tony to have a word Muckdoch and the Scum newspaper might help out?
It doesn't really matter if the emails get Osborne off the hook or not because Labour and their allies at the BBC and in the print media will spin the whole story to try to both get Hain off scott free and also to endeavour to falsely try to make the Tories look as sleazy and corrupt as Labour actually are.
'Funny' that as soon as a Conservative might be in the frame that the BBC started using 'possible breaches of the law'.Before it was 'rules' and in Andrew Marr's case 'rules framed as laws'.In reply to my complaint to the BBC the respondent mentioned 'law rules'.NOW we get 'Breach of Laws'.You couldn't make it up!?
HELP HELP!!
There's a run on the pound, Gordo's debauched the currency, help HEEEEELP!!
Don't Panic! Don't fuckin PAAANNNIIIICCCCCCCC!!!!!
Guido
Could you delete the Anon at 1:20PM
Its too low for me to even want to comment on it!
O/T: Rog, right click on "comments" and select Open in New Window.
As much as I agree that there's a vast difference between Osborne's situation & that of Hain's, & that this story provides little more than an opportunity for Labour to scrape some of the shit off Hain to fling at the Tories, I seem to be missing something...
The money was donated in Jan'07, but the emails are dated Dec'07 - why did it take him so long to enquire about registering it?
If it's true, yes, Osborne's off the hook as he was plainly not given the relevant advice (which should have been about donations chanelled to him via central office, not donations to him or to Central Office only). Still leaves huge questions about whether this is a dud law if even the enforcers don't understand it.
But he was never in danger because Cameron actually likes him. The reason Hain will have to go is because everybody from Gordon Brown on down loathes him as a poisonous snake, so he's got no defenders and no support.
One can't help noticing that the Bolshevic Broadcasting Corporation have actually reported the goings on in the politburo of the Soviet Socialist Republic of London (the Jasper the grasper affair)- has a deal been struck? Is it a case of "we'll report on that as long as we can say something about a senior Tory - we can't just report on Ken and his mates because there's too much negativity in the news about Zanulab at the moment."
What is going on in the Beeb's boardroom?
We should be told.
Off the hook. No doubt.
The important thing was that he hasn't kept anything secret unlike Hain and Abrahams. He didn't know what to do and so declared it to the authorities and asked them to decide.
This is exactly the way we want responsible politicians to behave.
It Bugs Me Too, 1:57 - or get a Mac.
Of course he is in the bloody clear. No case to answer.
One of the donors, Hugh Sloane, one of the City's best money managers. Low profile, no big risks, no PR machine, just a nice 20% compound for 13 years.
david dithers over british sovereignty. anti apartheid hain takes money from pro apartheid donor. osborne takes money from pro europe rothchilds. get the picture?
Looks pretty cut and dried. Sorry to disapoint...
Don't suppose Mr Hain has any emails that might help him? No, thought not...
Cameron and Osborne are both answering questions on the relevant issues - regardless of these e-mails, that looks like the actions of innocent parties.
Now, pHain on the other hand ....
Still, it's nice to see Brown doing the 'honourable' thing as only he knows how - washing his hands of pHain's misdeeds! How well they stick together our noble leaders.
I can't be bothered with the details. All I know is that I feel full of goodwill towards Osborne and full of ill-will towards Hain. Therefore my conclusion is Osborne innocent; Hain guilty.
anon @2:28
" This is exactly the way we want responsible politicians to behave. "
It's not the way I want them to behave. They should'nt be taking donations from anybody, nor should they be funded from the public purse. What's wrong with them putting their hand into their own pocket. Nobody gives donations of thousands of pounds without expecting something in return.
The only one going down is Hain. Osborne was NEVER in the frame despite the best efforts of the BBC and the assorted Labour MPs that keep being wheeled out on the media(Hain being too "frit" it seems) to try and defend the indefensible.
Maybe Mr.Hain was baptised in Bongwater? That might explain his strange hue and forgetful nature?
I do not see how this gets him off the hoo. It seesm to be an admitial that broke the rules. So he must go and as tory party hq knew they must go too.
If the declaration to the Electoral Commission was timely then Osborne is probably OK - and CERTAINLY an order of magnitude cleaner than Hain whose declarations to BOTH the Commission and the Register were incomplete.
PS - I'm not the nasty anonymous one
Yes. Alda B may have been wrong or misleading but that highlighted text certainly reads like an instruction from the Registrar that they should not register.
In any event it is completely different from Hain who committed a *Criminal offence* by failing to disclose donations to the Electoral Commission, and only scrabbled around to rectify this once Guido and others were on his tail.
The way it looks to me:
There was a chunk of money received for Osborne's office in January. All properly notified to the Electoral Commission. Nobody in Osborne's office thought it needed any further registering on the Register of Members' Interests.
Then come November, Labour is deluged in a shit storm, thanks to its donors. Central Office is determined not to be caught out too - so word goes out: it asks "anybody here got any possible problems? Please check."
So someone then looks at this donation again. Wording a bit unclear. So told - "play safe - fucking well check it out. Get a ruling!" So that happens in November. Word comes back in December. Everyone happy.
Except the BBC....desperate to appear "even handed" between the Parties, it alone runs with a complete non-story to its own ultimate embarrassment - but to the glee of the Labour Party, flailing wildly for any distraction (up to and including grave robbing).
Can somebody please tell the BBC that there is no even-handedness due here. This current Labour administration is the most crooked and amoral to govern us in centuries. It can't - and shouldn't - be balanced out because there is no equivalence due for this bunch of thieving lying unscrupulous bags of shit.
Be fair to the BBC it was supposedly Conservative leaning newsrag Mail on Sunday which ran the story.
WHO gave it to them? WHY?
I suspect dirty tricks by Labour. I want that POND to be castrated in public, what a ghastly man constantly used by another apologist for BROWN Sky news!!
Warning - DES is back!
Look at the date of the emails - he was on the hook until last December (about the same time that HAin told the Electoral Commission BTW). So much for Cameron saying that the right course of action if you are not sure is dicuss with the regulators - this obviously only applied from last December however - Osborne was happy to act in the dark until then.
Normal business practice when you get an unclear statement such as the final email would be to go back with an example and ask the person giving the advice to confirm and not to rely on such a vague statement.
Poor Gordy, hahaha
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23432221-details/Dear+Gordon...+Tony+Blair+sends+letter+to+Brown+telling+him+where+he%27s+gone+wrong/article.do
Tony Blair has written to Gordon Brown with a detailed assessment of his successor's performance as Prime Minister.
He congratulated Mr Brown on his successes - and spelled out where he thinks he is going wrong.
And he told his friend - and long-time rival - to work on being "post-Blair and not anti-Blair".
The long letter, sent before Christmas, followed a tough first six months in office for Mr Brown.
anonemo - So you are suggesting that a representative democracy should only have representatives that can afford the joiners fees? I want MP's from all backgrounds, some of those backgrounds will not come with Daddy's estate so the person wont have anything in their pockets.
NuLab and Rupert Muckdock are at it again. Every time Bliar got in the mire out came a security scare. Remember the armoured vehicles around the airport?
Well $ky News have just rolled an "exclusive" story about a police security operation going on in London looking for terrorists and stopping vehicles with shady looking drivers. Guess what colour they were?
Nothings changed under Broon.
Osborne is the one who can't control his kids in public.
I see there`s another NuLab "We`re still on "High Risk Terrorist Alert", blah blah blah, subtly being pushed around the News Desks again today, what a coincidence !
Every time one of them is in deep doo doo, we get a reminder of an impending attack. Cynical B......s. I don`t doubt, that one day there will be a genuine, imminment threat of an attack and we`ll all ignore it.
Brings to mind the poem about "Matilda", who told such dreadful lies, etc.
(For NuLab Trolls, the jist of the poem is, thus..........
Matilda kept reporting false fire alarms to the London Fire Brigade. One day a Fire did break out and nobody believed her. Subsequently, Matilda and her House were burned down.
Every time she shouted "Fire Fire", they all replied, "Little Liar" !
No, it doesn't get Osborne off the hook. All it shows is that a smug opposition spokesman whose only job is slagging off the greatest Chancellor in history has more time on his hands to check these things than the man responsible for Wales and our pensions, who is also bidding to become Deputy Labour Leader. If Peter did have the time to check these things I'd be worried as it would show he's neglecting his main duties.
Some of us NuLAB Trolls have read CAutionary Tales - a lot of the illustrations remind me Cameron and Osborne for some reason - the head of Jim after he was eaten by the Lion?
OT: Could we have the comment boxes re-sizeable again, please?(Rog)
Right click on the link, choose "open in new window"
Oops, someone's already suggested it...
Quentin Sheepshagger.
Brown is truly a great man worth of our respect. As is The Rt Hon P Hain slaving away for those who now mock him. But he is an ex Chancellor.
Osborne as Shadow Chancellor needs a strong team. As did Brown when he was shadow Chancellor. Osborne was helped by bluechip businessmen rather than by Brown's benefactor,the Exchange cotrol regulation breakerr and dodgy car saleman who seduced his way to an offshore trust of £20mn which funded our fuckwit ex Greatest Living Chancellor office.
Brown then gave Robinson a Govt job. The same fellow whose Trans Tec went bust and who was subject to a DTI investigation. Shagger Robinson has put his expertise to good use at Coventry City.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Perhaps CityUnslicker might want to comment on whether one of Osborne's backers Lady Serena Rothschild seduced her way into a fortune since he is obviously an expert on these matters
Anon 5.22pm What are you talking about ? Je ne comprend pas !
"Brown then gave Robinson a Govt job. The same fellow whose Trans Tec went bust and who was subject to a DTI investigation"
I worked at Trans tec for a while and saw that cunt once in the office if id known then what I know now I would have punched the twat.
Anon 5.21. So easy to Google Matilda ! I would have thought reading the Beano or Viz would be more your choice of literature.
Typical "Smart Arse" retort from a Troll. Now Google Troll !
Why was Git O'Harry on the BBC saying that if you're an 'optimist' you'll think that Hain is safe, whereas a 'pessimist' will think he's in the soup? Surely, the optimistic thing is to believe that the bastard's stuffed and will never taint public life again!
Ossie was never on the hook. 'Hain the Pain' is a sleazy scum ball. The 'Think Tank' - the one that has never thought nor put pen to paper - merely proves the point.
james
I was talking about MPs and parties, not, for whatever reason, taking bungs, or MPs having other jobs. However having a limit of say £2000 on election spending, per candidate would'nt stop anyone from putting themselves forward, and might force candidates to actually engage with voters.
As far as representative democracy is concerned we can only vote on the candidates who are standing, the selection of most of those is done by a committee at local level, which is hardly representative or democratic, since their loyalty is to whichever party they are in. Independants can't usually compete against party funding unless, as you say, they have daddy's estate behind them.
In a representative democracy the elected members are supposed to act in the people's interest. Do you honestly think that what we have is acting in the peoples interest?
Oh, and what I said still stands, No one gives donations of thousands without expecting something in return. How does that fit with democracy?
Dead sheep of QD - Talking utter bollocks again I see. You, like the rest of Nuliebour, are load of delusional deceitful hippocrites and should fuck off, now.
Brown is WORST chancellor for a generation. He spent shed loads of capital very badly and bugger all value for it. He is fiscally useless and economically clueless. Yes, yes, I know he is a clever bugger but that does not make him any good. In fact it just makes him intellectually autistic.
He is a wanker.
@ Lola
I speak as a dead sheep.
Quentin is being ironic - check his blog.
That said: maybe I am not as clever as I suppose and I apologise and blaim ministerial overwork and incompetence.
A simple welsh ewe etc - oops. Feling a bit grumpy and let it get away with me. Apologies
Didn't I do well on Newsnight tonight?
What do you mean I looked and sounded like a useless cunt and ended up shafting Hain up the arse by saying the rozzers were going to get him?
That's what Gordon told me to say.
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