Exclusive : Police to Seize Labour Party Software Evidence
A co-conspirator tells Guido that the Labour party's High Value Donors Unit has a piece of American software that could provide very handy evidence for the police investigating the illegal fund raising scandal. "Raiser's Edge" is supposed to record all contacts with donors including what events they have attended and what telephone calls have taken place. It will reveal some of the people who knew about Abrahams besides Peter Watt, Jon Mendelsohn and Baroness Jay.
The police will want to get in before they hit the delete button - if the software records that David Abrahams is in fact the donor for Kidd et al the scandal is institutional and systematic. Guido wonders what the software will record for the proxy donors. If the records go missing in a cover-up attempt it would indicate a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - again!
The police will want to get in before they hit the delete button - if the software records that David Abrahams is in fact the donor for Kidd et al the scandal is institutional and systematic. Guido wonders what the software will record for the proxy donors. If the records go missing in a cover-up attempt it would indicate a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice - again!Michael Bright has got the Labour party to admit Abrahams attended fund raising galas with ministers and other high-ranking Labour figures. No word as to who was at the table with Abrahams, but as the third highest ranking donor you can bet he wasn't on a table behind a pillar next to the toilets. Flash, bang wallop what a picture that will be...
UPDATE : Deleting records could be difficult for anyone at Labour HQ contemplating perverting the course of justice according to a co-conspirator "I work for a charity (have done for many years, I am the token right winger in the room, kind of minority tokenism, but anyway...) and have been using Raiser's Edge™ for many years, and if their system works anything like ours, not only will/should every contact be recorded, but they cannot be deleted, for audit purposes. And should someone be naughty and not record info, it will probably be reconstructable through the context of the other information on the system."
63 comments:
"However, Abrahams last night told the Guardian that Mendelsohn had solicited funds from him six weeks ago, an allegation that challenges Mendelsohn's claim that all along he had been planning to end the entire financial relationship between him and the party".
I am becoming more convinced that Abrahams himself is a front for other donors in this socialist heartland, the North East - there is a clue in his final comment to Paxo. In an area where the Liarbour Party has ruled unopposed for decades to get on you have to be in the tent pissing outwards. If you want to get an idea of what Britain would look like after decades of Liarbour rule, come here - over 60% of the workforce in the public sector and most of the rest on benefits.
A possible killer question is "what representations were made regarding planning approval for Durham Green Developments?"
I it wouldn't surprise me if that CD has been erased. Evidence, accidentally gone missing.
I was woken up in the early morning with the sound of shredders grinding and the hammer beating of hard drives echoing over London. As soon as this dreadful noise stops the Met can begin their investigation.
The Today program managed to not mention this between 8am and 9am. Nothing to see here.
What about this new allegation from Abrahams that Mendelsohn tried to tap him for cash at a dinner party?
Also, didn't Abrahams say his letter from Mendelsohn was hand written? Was that just a slip of the tongue, or are there 2 letters?
The confidentiality afforded to Dave/David Martin/Abrahams 53/62 contrasts sharply with the recklessness our government has with Joe Public's records.
Raiser's edge is pretty much standard in fund raising, as is the policy of recording all contacts with potential or actual donors. But given the chasm between policy and practice in IT systems I would be amazed if they were using the system correctly.
Ref eg. groper jack "never having met Dave" : I make a regular modest donation to a political party - not nulab, other political parties are available.
When I turn up at the yearly drinks do, the local agent is on to me like a heat seaking missile. Then you get the full on guided tour of everyone who has turned up from Westminster or headquarters , all of whom are programmed to gladhand every live donor put in front of them !
BTW - Tony Wright thought Cameron was really, awfully, beastly for suggesting Brown lacks integrity. It 'demeans us all' apparently.
That f*cker makes me sick. Lack of integrity is the least of Brown's faults. Isn't it almost a pre-requisite of being PM?
How long will it be before we receive confirmation that Gordon Brown knew all along about the secret arrangements for Abrahams donations?
I give it until this week's Mail on Sunday pops through the letterbox ;-)
Oxbridge Prat is right - the chances that Labour were using Raisers Edge properly or comprehensively are not high. As software goes it is a complex b****r and users don't always use it well It took years for a charity I know to even use a fraction of what it could do.
Even if Labour did use all its features they might be canny enough not to record things which they actually knew they shouldn't know!
It could well provide evidence but if it doesn't THAT proves nothing.
Menhelsohn and Abrahams are supposed to have fallen out over ideology at the Labour Friends of Israel.
Does anyone know what the difference was?
Because in this affair all roads seem to lead to Jerusalem.
How embarrassing would it be if there were shown to be a link between Mr Abrahams and, say, any past or present senior figures in Northern Rock?
People usually fall out over more personal slights (he didn't vote for me / invite me to tea / support my planning application) - but since that seems childish they dress it up as ideology.
If the money donated by, or through, Abrahams for the past four years went into a different account than the official Labour party account administered by the Treasurer Dromey then who administered this other account?
Lord Levy was chief fundraiser for much of this time so he has some explaining to do.
And so has Blair!
Those Blairites now busy stirring it against Brown would, perhaps, do well to remember this.
I hope the Police also look into Ray Ruddick's claims yesterday to the BBC that the money came from Labour and went back to Labour.
In what instances might a property developer get money from the Government. Compulsary purchases? Some kind of development grants?
Sounds a lot like the Unions wheeze Guido has mentioned on here before.
casual observer - the money was probably handled in the normal way. The issue is where it came from, not what was done with it.
Is there enough capacity in cyberspace for all the shit that is going to be thrown into the fan?
mitch- if the money was "handled in the normal way" then how come the Labour Party treasurer, Jack Dromey, now claims he knew fuck all about it?
the only link was to do with this Durham Green Developments business park, which Northern Rock was co-funding...sounds dodgy to moi...
gareth 9.43
Excellent point!
"Is there enough capacity in cyberspace for all the shit that is going to be thrown into the fan?"
I've seen some shitstorms in my time but this one's a hurricane.
The "is Abrahams a conduit?" angle is being touted by the Telegrope.
slush - I thought Dromey was saying he didn't know the money came from Abrahams. I'm assuming he thought the donations from the agents were genuine. Stupid I know; but he IS stupid.
Interestingly, Peter Oborne is today saying Peter Watt is/was the 'registered treasurer' of the Labour party. What exactly is Dromey's role?
Let's hope that the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play wins the day.
Erm...
Guido - you wrote yesterday that he is at the centre of a web of financial links to Labour; Treasurer of Policy Network, Treasurer of Progress, deeply involved in Labour Friends of Israel.
So he is. he is also the prime mover and fundraiser behind this organisation:
http://www.bicom.org.uk/news
It is now run by ex Labour MP Lorna Fitzimmons.
It organises, among its other activities, fund raising events in expensive London venues. In fact, venues that look remarkably like the photograph on the front page of the Telegraph today of David Abrahams shaking hands with Zvi Heifetz, the then Israeli ambassador.
My question is:
1 What funding has BICOM received from David Abrahams / Tory lollypop ladies etc.
2 Mendelsohn would have known of such donations in whatever form they were given.
All routes lead back to Mendelsohn.
Now we have the Nick Robinson revelation about 'the letter'. He's published what purports to be the document.
One small point though, Abrahams said of the Mendlesohn letter it was in 'his hand' i.e. a handwritten note.
There's no signature on Robinson's version either. Do we think that someone at the BBC has just dummied this one up? How grossly unprofessional....
"mitch- if the money was "handled in the normal way" then how come the Labour Party treasurer, Jack Dromey, now claims he knew fuck all about it?2
'cos Dromey is useless, perhaps.
I hope Guido can find the time to nip up the A1 and have a look at donations received by the folk up there. It's a scandal that folk in the Labour wallet lands are being drawn into this stinking mess. Given the subtle money laundering method used even the plod will be able to see who got how much and when and clear all these poor decent in about 5 minutes flat.
Casual brown observer - what a laugh - Blair's pals have been cleared and your lot are holding the after birth. Brownless Brown should have had more sense than to wave his compass at us. After the Bishop what next, an appeal to the Pope?
I wonder how much bad news is being parked across the whole of HMG while we wee ourselves with glee at this funding glitch.
Qinetiq slipped by with barely a murmur, Monday's new nukes are forgotten already, and who now recalls the size of the current budget deficit?
Not saying Geordiegate isn't a disgrace, but in the bigger scheme of things the buggers have lots more to answer for.
the only link was to do with this Durham Green Developments business park, which Northern Rock was co-funding...sounds dodgy to moi...
Anon 9:52 AM
At PMQs yesterday Gordon's arm and stutter went way off the register when Northern Rock was mentioned.
He had most of the other responses nailed down, but that was like: 'Nooo don't go there'.
Linda Loves Lace said...
You don't happen to have a site with pictures of yourself, do you ? I have several credit cards if this will help
Yours very respectfully.
mitch said...
The Today program managed to not mention this between 8am and 9am. Nothing to see here.
Simply because much earlier we were informed it was 'blowing over' as there was nothing new in the papers!
Strapworld
There is something new in the papers though
- Abrahams last night told the Guardian that Mendelsohn had solicited funds from him six weeks ago, an allegation that challenges Mendelsohn's claim that all along he had been planning to end the entire financial relationship between him and the party".
Nothing much in the news about the European Scrutiny Committee's latest report "the Committee repeats its earlier criticism that the Intergovernmental Conference process could not have been better designed to marginalise the role of national parliaments and to curtail public debate. The Committee remains concerned that the Reform Treaty may have imposed legal obligations directly on national parliaments in respect of their proceedings, and doubts that the Protocol on the Charter of Fundamental Rights will prevent the courts of the UK from being bound by judgments of the European Court interpreting and applying the Charter....."
@ mitch 9.57am
you're not following.
dromey has no actual control over any money. watt is actual treasurer.
dromey is harman's partner
so if of one of them is guilty the other one doesn't have to be. the kids' school fees (no bog standard local comp here check previous) still get paid. so last time he was shouting his head off and she wasn't. she got deputy leadership of the labour party. and he got the honour. this time, bit of a fuckup, she's in trouble, best he can do is mutter concealment 3 times. but the school fees are safe. because harman is of jewish decent c/o herbert morrisson (lcc, london county council, not supermarket) link to abrahams (call me martin) milliband, mendelsohn, mandelson, levy and the rest. dromey's high point was grunwick, since then he's just been what's called (i'm told) a fag hag for harman.
If HMG can arrange for their aid recipients in Khartoum to flog a British teacher or two this story might finally be laid to rest.
Yeah I know, it's descent, not decent.
Looks as though it could be though.
5 mins till PMQ. Gordon says I want you at my side. So I can hide you from the TV cameras every time I stand up.
She could be decent then.
God knows she isn't getting it from Dromey.
sorry - have i missed something? has someone called the police?
Talking of software, I really do recommend readers tune to the Parliament Channel where Kitty Ussher is taking Treasury Questions. She may be a mendacious four eyed NuLabour apparatchik but she does sport the most fascinating pair of jugs. Large & well formed if a trifle pendulous & displayed to advantage in a cerise(?) top One does keep hoping she'll drop a pencil or something because the act of retrieving it could prove most entertaining.
Surely it would be the right thing now for Gordon Brown to directly intervene and place the planning application that Abrahams obtained, evidently by bribery and corruption, on hold pending the outcome of the investigation?
Let's see how 'transparent' New-Nu Labour really are now.
Twitcher please keep your revolting comments to yourself.
Kitty Ussher's decolletage is not really the issue here, unless they have independently made donations to the Labour party via David Adbrahms.
From the Register of Interests for Harriet Harman:
Michael V Sternberg, of London (personal donation). (Registered 28 June 2007)
Janet Kidd, of Newcastle upon Tyne (personal donation) (Registered 18 July 2007)
What relationship is this Sternberg to the Sir Sigmund Sternberg feature in Guido's picture in his blog 28/11 12.34am?
Are they married?
"Kitty Ussher's decolletage is not really the issue here, unless they have independently made donations to the Labour party via David Adbrahms."
From my observations, while the right one is looking distinctively perky its companion could well have something to hide
"Peter Osborne is today saying Peter Watt is/was the 'registered treasurer' of the Labour party. What exactly is Dromey's role?"
Labour effectively has two treasurers, best viewed like executive and non-executive directors:
1) the "Registered Treasurer" (was Peter Watt, also General Secretary - his usual job title) who is a full-time employee responsible for every-day duties & registered as Treasurer under PPERA, so has the legal obligations;
2) the "Party Treasurer" (Jack Dromey), elected and unpaid, a member of the NEC, chairing the "Business Board" which "is responsible for overseeing the business functions of the organisation including the management of the finances". There is also an "Audit Committee" chaired by someone else.
So Jack Dromey's role is non-executive oversight, but like most non-executive directors is rather dependent on the employees giving him accurate information. AFAIK he also has few, if any, direct powers like firing anyone; he would need to talk the NEC into taking some action. A pretty horrible role really, a potential fall-guy. In fact the Labour website tends to downplay his role calling the job "Treasurer of the NEC", reflecting the diminished effective powers of the NEC since Blair became PM.
Where is Matt Carter, Peter Watt's predecessor and General Secretary when most of the Abrahams donations were made? He has been surprisingly quiet (or should that be unavailable?).
"Jeremy" has just posted on the previous thread. Check out the Daily Mail website. Quote:
"Gordon Brown's chief fundraiser advocated the use of unlawful third parties for donations, it emerged today.
"In a potentially explosive revelation, it's been reported that Jon Mendelsohn suggested that at least one Labour deputy leadership campaign should use a 'network' of people to cover up the real identities of donors."
Except, of course, Janet Kidd's wasn't a personal donation.
That's a lie.
Anonymous 11.15am
I'd be more concerned why donations to Harman's deputy campaign were still being registered as late as November and why several donors are MPs spending our money.
anon 11:23 - honestly believed at the time?
@ mitch 11.42
do you seriously believe that a woman who took a contribution from sternberg junior didn't know sternberg senior who knew abrahams (pic evidence available) and he, abrahams, then didnt say to her, harriet, short of dosh? i'll get my friend janet to bung you some?
or do you honestly believe it's all coincidence?
fogged on the tyne 10:12 said ....in the bigger scheme of things the buggers have lots more to answer for......
Agreed, but they got Al Capone for tax evasion. Not his other rackets.
Get the crooked bastards any way you can.
Presumably this was the resource used to produce that photo of Tony Lit ?
@ anon 12.05
ask guido, he's showing one of the pics
honest anon 11:54 - I was suggesting her possible defence. Honestly. I made no comment on it's effectiveness. Honestly.
These guys work to different rules than you and I.
Have the Labour Party paid back the illegal £650,000 they took from Abrahams like they claimed they would?
Have they fuck!
And they're not going to either, so I'm told.
Strange isn't it Sternberg senior give to Hilary Benn and Gordon and Sternberg junior to Hilary Harman and Abrahams give to Benn and to Harman (via Kidd). Looks like they like to spread it around a bit at the top levels of Labour. Lets just suppose that they have not met each other at the usual dinners/events that this sort of donation would bring invites to.
anon 0932
fallen out over ideology at the Labour Friends of Israel.
Abrahams likes Hamas as well, apparently.
11.11AM
"Kitty Ussher's decolletage is not really the issue here, unless they have independently made donations to the Labour party via David Adbrahms."
Sorry, what was the issue again?
11.11AM
We didn't know we were doing anything wrong! Gordon sucked on us both at the same time - does that let us off the hook?
Guido
Don't you think that the presumed integrity of Brown and his government is too important for it to be brought down by this scandal? Rather in the same way that Hutton surely felt that Blair's presumed integrity was too valuable to be destroyed by his enquiry, whatever the truth.
I think that there is some soundness in the idea that more harm than good will be done by divulging exactly what has happened.
However, if we go along with this expediency, and agree that the Executive should never be brought into disrepute by the actions of its (temporary) occupants, I believe that it is of critical importance that there is put in place fully beefed-up checks and structures within the Executive so that there ceases to be any necessity for its integrity to be audited from outside.
Starting with Mrs Thatcher, and continuing thereafter, the Executive have chipped away at the checks on its activities. It's time this was reversed.
Surely Blair's anctics, which necessitated the Hutton report, did not involve actual DIRECT party corruption, as can be so clearly seen in the Abrahams scandal. It's pretty damnably obvious that here is a man who donates one hell of a lot of cash to the Labour Party, often by indirect (illegal) means and then has a planning decision against him overturned by central government back into his favour.
I don't think we have see this level of absolute 'transparent' contempt for the law since Poulson and T.Dan Smith, unless we also count Michael Levy and the peerages-for-cash scandal.
Julian
Yes, I agree that the Blair/Hutton situation and this one have differences, but I still think that what is to be gained here, if we really push for it, is a code of behaviour imposed on our political representatives that will effectively prevent the clever, devious, self-interested bubble merchants from achieving positions of power.
After all, if there is powerful internal audit of probity and integrity this will surely require political leaders to be of a mental calibre some way above that of most of the incumbents. Certainly this is elitist, but wouldn't we be better off trying a bit of elitism in view of how badly the alternative is performing?
I'm sure there will be those who will say that our present leaders are already of the highest possible level of ability, and that all that is required is for them to be brought back into line. I don't agree. I think the squalid events that have been happening are symptomatic of a poor quality of leader, not of good leaders going astray.
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