Gummer-Goldsmith Green Taxes
If like Guido you remain resolutely unconvinced that the world is about to suffer climate catastrophe because of man-made carbon emissions, the idea of slapping "green" taxes on everything that moves just looks like an excuse for more taxes. The truth of this is evident in that they don't propose to cut taxes on less carbon intensive modes, which would incentivise their uptake.
If, as with Guido's family, there are three countries you call home, it is particularly penal. Short of slowly sailing around Western Europe with a horse and cart in the hold, Guido is going to have to pay a lot of "green taxes". Will it change his behaviour? No, it will just cost more. Will it make a blind bit of difference to the condition of the planet? No.
Gummer and Goldsmith (in particular) are obssessed with reversing the modern way of life for the many and returning us back to some romanticised peasant life. If they didn't have the carbon emissions bogeyman the environmentalists would make something else up to further this aim. This is just another racket giving eager politicians an excuse to raise taxes.
If, as with Guido's family, there are three countries you call home, it is particularly penal. Short of slowly sailing around Western Europe with a horse and cart in the hold, Guido is going to have to pay a lot of "green taxes". Will it change his behaviour? No, it will just cost more. Will it make a blind bit of difference to the condition of the planet? No.Gummer and Goldsmith (in particular) are obssessed with reversing the modern way of life for the many and returning us back to some romanticised peasant life. If they didn't have the carbon emissions bogeyman the environmentalists would make something else up to further this aim. This is just another racket giving eager politicians an excuse to raise taxes.
42 comments:
the best travelled people I know are greenies.
'you just have to see things for yourself don't you'.....natch
and they all have cars.do as i say etc
Of course if nothing changes climate wise they're on a nice little earner, if things do change dramatically they will say too little late but they tried. Either way their arses are covered. A typical politicians manoeuvre.
I am a member of an advisory body that was consulted by the Quality of Life Group on green taxes and aviation. We produced quite a detailed assessment explaining that they either would not work full stop (eg they might encourage a switch from some domestic flights to rail, but the takeoff slots would then be switched to higher-polluting international flights)or that they would have to be imposed at very high rates because the aviation business model has shown itself highly resilient in the face of to significant new cost burdens. The response from George Osborne's office was effectively "we've announced that we're having green taxes. so that's that." Evidence Based Decision Making?
Even if you believe climate change is solar sourced, increasing CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is not going to help the situation is it!
The 'green' issues are populated by exactly the same kind of tosser that followed CND in the 60's and 70's.
If it rains, it's global warming, if it's too hot it's global warmimng, if it's too cold it's global warming, if it's too windy it's global warming. etc
The irony is in the next decade or so, people won't be complaining about to much fossil fuels, they will be complaining about too little.
The difference between now and the 70's and 80's is the fuckwitts weren't running the country then.
W.W.
Anonymous said @ 1:27 PM
'I am a member...' blah blah blah
How can we take your statement seriously when you choose to post anonymously? Are you really involved in the Quality of Life Group, or are you just another NuLab astroturfer smearing Osborne?
I'd like to know please
I'm amazed. A post suggesting that man-made carbon emissions might not be killing the world and the dolphins and our children's children, it;s been up since 12.14, and the green nutjobs haven't moved in yet.
Couldn't agree more - as usual the politicians attack everything from the wrong end and ride on the back of the populist emotional tabloid approach rather than the logical. Tax it - don't bother about trying to solve the initial cause - whether young gun crime (cries of where are all the coppers), rather than what are the parents doing about bringing up their kids and knowing what they are up to) to climate change (if such it be) - tax the blighters on aviation, rather than let's put some government (sorry, taxpayer) funding into engine research. And while we're at it - ban smoking when the alternative was to lay down a (tough) air quality standard for indoor public places, then let those who want to pay and install the technology to meet that standard, do so, and come round and measure it now and then. Nanny state - enought to make you w*t your p**ts.
Well said, my thoughts exactly and what I've been saying for ages. If statists really wanted to limit carbon-generating movements we'd all be given a tradeable per-capita carbon quota. Oh, we've not been given one? Interesting.
Even if the promised klimate katastrophe arrives, the actions of a few million people in Britain will be a token gesture. We could install a totalitarian state run by the Green Party and this would barely dent global C02 emissions, in other words no benefit for a lot of costs.
As Guido says, we don't need lots of green taxes. Why not zero-rate the VAT on bicycles and insulation products instead of taxing cars or homes more?
Politicians seem bored and looking for ways to expand their agency.
Is this the same Gummer who said we should all eat beef?
Beef that come from cattle that produce far more co2 and methane than all the worlds cars combined?.
Zac Goldmsith needs to a get a real job the silver spoon fed cunt.
His family have a history of fucking up other peoples lives , nice to see he intends to carry on the tradition.
Subterfuge
I posted anonymously because members of Government-fundeed advisory bodies should be apolitical. I am certainly not a Labour "astroturfer". There is a lot that could constructively be recommended by the Quality of Life Group to address aviation's impacts, but green taxes to fund family tax breaks (cf today's Mail)should not be among them. Populism's fine, but it ought to be based on cause and effect rather than mere vote-pandering.
The Quality of Life group isn't a Government-funded advisory body. It was set up by Cameron and is (I assume) funded by the Conservative Party.
anonymous, 2.26pm
We are not members of the Quality of Life Group; we are a Government-funded advisory body that was consulted by the Group.
anon. 2.18pm
Subterfuge - is it actually possible "smear" Osborne?
Someone needs to tell the Tories that they do not need a smug, sanctimonious, poor little rich-kid, who'se trying to climb onto the political eco-lobby and tell us what to do.
Zac can fuck-off and take his ill-gotten fathers millions and shove em up his sphincter.
Whats the third country?
Don't you think having homes in three countries is excessive? A teensy-weensy little bit of over-consumption Guido?
A bit like the Prime Minister, who has homes in London, Scotland and at Chequers?
Some politicians (Lib Dems) are explicitly saying they’d use the money raised from green taxes to cut income tax (from 20% to 16%).
I think Hitch is being rather pubescent and offensive. His sort of contribution demonstrates the weaker, unsophisticated side of political blogging.
anon 2.28
'we are a government-funded advisory body'
Get it right - you are a TAX PAYER funded advisory body
"This is our policy now you go and provide us with the scientific data to support it" - this sort of demand from New Labour (never under the previous lot whom I didn't vote for) was a major reason for my parting company with my old employer
There is a marvellous little book called "The Strangest Star", by John Gribbin, science author and chief-finger-man at Sussex University, published about 1978 or so.
It is, of course, about the Sun. In it, Gribbin pre-rehearses all the info that was quite well understood about the "Little Ice Age" 400 years ago, and about how the Sun, whose radiated output in watts per minute is about 300,000 times what Man has used since the Dawn of Time, is the prime motor of Earth's climate. He makes the point that we ought not to assume that Earth actually HAS any settled climate at all; a very sobering and worrying book, specially for Al Gore.
freesherry
FUCK OFF YOU CUNT!
And you'd think an Irishman would be all for Green Taxes, wouldn't you?
1:43pm
Nanny state - enought to make you w*t your p**ts.
Not Gordon, he's still trying to graduate to pull-ups.
penfold 2:58pm
Zac can fuck-off and take his ill-gotten fathers millions and shove em up his sphincter.
How did you know how we make our money transfers?
freesherry 5:48 PM
You new here or just a bit dim?
david davis 6:21pm
Oh blazes! I don't Adam 'n Eve it! We're all gonna be toast!
Take the train you selfish cunt.
Why is John Selwyn Gummer still alive, and what can we do about it?
Guido, you're being a teensy bit of a knobber here. Yes, the sun is a major driver of climate change. Yes, a huge chunk of CO2 in the atnosphere isn't helping a teensy weensy little bit. And yes, we are a small country, but cutting our emissions isn't going to make it any worse, is it?
Not, however, as much of a knobber as those proposing to tax for green. What can't they do tax cuts for green? The prospect of a few extra quid in my pocket would have me round the recycling banks with an armload of empty bottles lickety fecking schpit.
Thank you (the)hitch. I now feel that I have been accepted fully as part of the blogosphere.
Meanwhile, sloe gin,in the hitch's immortal words - "FUCK OFF YOU CUNT"
freesherry
you are fucking welcome(=;
freesherry 1:43 PM
Cheers!
Green taxes don't work - if you want to raise money.
Ask K Livingstone. The C-Charge was meant to raise £200m per year at £5 per day.
In fact, it took at least two years to cover the set-up costs. Double the number of drivers refused to pay than was expected - traffic entering the zone fell by 30 percent rather than 12-15 percent.
What profits it did make, were massively boosted by the huge fine revenue.
Indeed, the fine revenue was so large, that when the charge was upped to £8 and drivers given a day's grace to pay the charge (2006-07) - income actualy fell £20m to around £80m
for a full deconstruction see the excellent conservative councillor.
http://philtaylor.org.uk/?p=726#comment-19513
You might also consider that driving people out of their cars (with fuel tax at 70 percent of the cost of each gallon) onto public transport, actually costs the government money.
http://philtaylor.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/tfl-bus-operations-2003-2007.JPG
This shows the current London bus subsidy at £616m - up from a £100k surplus back in the bad old days of 1998.
That's the trouble with public transport, putting it on tap (for an average bus ridership of 16-18 in London) is very expensive.
Indeed, Gordo is so reluctant to subsidises middle class rail travel and (more importantly) long-distance commuting, the rail subsidy is being slashed and fares raised.
Drivers pay (by extension) VAT on the vehicle price, Vat and (massive) fuel tax, VAT on servicing and spares, road tax and tax on insurance premiums. Oh and speed fines.
All the government has to do keep the roads open.
I would say to any 'green' government, be careful what you wish for. It's not better by bus and train, especially if you are the chancellor.
Guido (& rigger, wilberforce etc) - absolutely right: it's just a tax-raising scheme. Tax's R' Us.
Politicians' pensions are not high enough. Polly Toynbee needs a new villa. Brown for the UN!!
Given the international discrepancies with the newly (or yet-to-be-) industrialised 3rd World, it's also a treasonously anti-British move - Cameron is so busy carin' and sharin', he's forgotten what planet he's on.
OTOH, you could travel round in an amphibious and air-viable micro-lite version of those lovely green-white-gold plastic tinkers' caravans they have (or at least used to have) on the Kerry Ring.
anon 12:22am
"That's the trouble with public transport, putting it on tap (for an average bus ridership of 16-18 in London) is very expensive."
Not only 16-18, anon - bus routes meandering past every housing estate in town mean that the truculent boarders are of all ages, and invariably have (or claim to have) some sort of 'free pass' - often showing no pass at all as they saunter past the lethargic driver.
Oystercards are obtainable on the council estate black market and via social services.
Great to see the climate-change denying 'flat-earthers' spouting yet more crap, as it will be more humble pie to enjoy watching them it in the long run...
People don't like taxes, unless you happen to raise them.
Man induced Climate Change is happening, although most would want to wish it away, or a hope credible science would prove otherwise. You don't need to have visited the Antartic and Artic on survey ships (I did), or look at C2/Oxygen isotope levels/ average temperatures, to know this. Many researchers UK knew this in 1988 at Durham University and UEA. Then they predicted 0.25m sea level rise over 50 years (in 1988), which is about correct now. Many are still in denial and choose not to be part of the collective solution!
Scientist have reviewed the CH4 Dispatches critique, to summise the research was based of outdated findings from 10-15 years ago.
I'm a capitalist, and environmentalist; the Green Party doesn't have a monopoly on Green Issues and thinking, and neither should they. Xerox and Toyoto are "Zero Waste", emply 000's and make huge profits. If you run a poor business one's waste and costs are high cutting into one's profits. Green Taxes are a good idea of encouraging UK businesses to be more efficient on energy and less wasteful. Excessive travelling is wasteful in an age of e-conferencing and mass communication. Pollution, especially PM2.5 air pollution affects everyone. A company needing to pay high Green Taxes is a poor, inefficient, lavish and uncompetitive business that deserves to go to the wall, IMO. I'm not against cars, just make them Hydrogen/ Hybids/Bioethanol and clean miles/juice as possible, and use them less liberally.
Taxing Income and Profit, Capital Gains and Inheritence Tax are unfair taxes on fair enterprise, savings, success, and hard work. This is the real Tax Crime! This is where the tax cuts are needed and justified.
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