Dave : Read My Lips "No Cheap Trips"
It is alright for Cameron to go jetting about on Michael Spencer's private jet as and when required, but us proles tend to hop on to Easyjet and Ryanair.Often when Guido flies down to the Maison Secondaire the tax is far more than the ticket. The Tories are planning another tax grab under the guise of the green totalitarianism that is so appealing to all politicians. It appeals to their vanity "to do something", gives them an excuse to hike taxes and the public pays the bill. The Tories are the party of lower taxers or they are nothing. Tax cuts incentivise, why don't they reduce taxes on more eco-friendly forms of transport. Sailing Yachts forinstance could benefit from a a green tax exemption.
If is not just an excuse to raise tax revenue, prove it by implementing carbon cutting encouraging tax exemptions. Horses, cycles, sailboats and the rest should be exempted from taxes...
85 comments:
What tax rate will be applied if I fart ?
It will be interesting to see how this goes down. Personally I have no wish to see any more taxation and see cheaper air travel as a boon to see more of the World. I'm glad that I've been able to travel in a way my grandparents (who never left the country) weren't able to do.
Presumablty as Brown and Ming will be making the same threats it will be voter neutral.
People tell pollsters that they support policies which they think they ought to support (ie apparently everybody is using low energy lightbulbs despite evidence of the sales figures which show they are not)but often they believe the opposite. In 1988 people wanted the Government to increase taxes 'for schools'n'hospitals' but the cut in income tax was a great success!
If Dave brings this in he wont get my vote, which he otherwise would have.
Why not tackle business pollution first:
Penalise business for flying in cheap goods with a air tariff or energy saving light bulbs.
To go for air travel and to hit probably voters is a cheap trick, and will backfire on him.
"Penalise business for flying in cheap goods with a air tariff or energy saving light bulbs."
What's wrong with cheap goods? If I want to buy cheap goods that's up to me.
Dave and Boy George are becoming more ridiculous by the day.
Perhaps its time for a coup by the Colonels in the Tory Party otherwise "4 more years" is inevitable
Naughty Guido, doing a spin job like this.
These are proposals not all of which will be implemented.
They go with a pledge to make them 'tax neutral' and to protect the family holiday flights but tax those that over sue air travel like you and your city friends do (and as i did before I saw the light and buggered off to the beach permanently).
If its anything like Daves other "policies" it'll be gone by Wednesday or so fudged as to be meaningless.
Guido, it is maison secondaire twats like you that are fucking up the economy for the rest of us ! Agreed that we need to offer tax breaks for horses though...
"over sue " airlines ? no doubt they are worried about litigious customers who lose their luggage...
"us proles....maison secondaire"?!
Couldn't help but notice that The Telegraph has taken a leaf out of the red-tops' book and inaugurated a Jokes Page:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/03/11/do1104.xml
It'll be Readers' Wives next.
If you can afford a maison secondaire, I somehow think you wont notice a hike in airfares.
Oh ! There is more joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth..
It is great to see that longer is Dave willing to allow the Labour and Liberal party hijack 'eye-catching' policy developments and is willing to have real strategies for garnering the votes of the centre-ground, while refusing to pander to right-wing loons of the UKIP / BNP tendency.
Way to go Cameron !!!
Be fair to Georgie, he probably manages his pocket money well.
The NuCons are not exactly a 1000miles ahead in any polls if this is daves idea helping to draw away from NuLab ,I think he will get a shock in the locals.
He we go again ,my turn to jump off the roundabout and say something,RIP conservatives ,teflon cameroon if he stays god help us.
One really does have to wonder at the mental capabilities of The Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. Or his conservatism.
At the end of a week when it finally became respectable to at least question the "climate change consensus" he chooses to announce that, just like The Greasy One, he too will be taxing airline tickets.
For fuxaches! How much street cred could he have gained by saying: "In the light of the growing evidence that the consensus might be flawed, the next government will postpone the implementation of green taxes until the argument is settled"?
By all that is sacred, this man is a MUPPET!
Speaking as a Conservative I'm actually rather glad they are bringing in this sort of tax. The airways are gradually being clogged up with those dreadful nasty, cheap Ryanair and Easyjet planes which make life so bloody difficult for one's Gulfstream pilot to get into Gatwick's private terminal. Its rather like the congestion charge which that awfully sound, rational chap Livingstone sorted out by making sure us Range Rover drivers have a nice straight run into town.
Now all we need is someone like Tony Blair to run the country ...
when Guido flys
No flies on Guido then !
Now the Tories have suggested Tax Increases a full 10 days before Brown's Budget.....can we discuss Tax CUTS ?
Corrected. My mistook.
But if you travel more expensively such as by train don't you either have to a) work more to earn more thereby use more petrol and electricity, or b) buy less expensive items such as energy efficient lightbulbs?
Wanting to be green doesn't automatically put money into your bank account.
Do the conservatives ever want to get back in power, they won't with policies like this proposed air tax. Why doesn't Dave have the guts to stand up and say the climate is changing but its cyclical and NOT man made. I like warmer winters and turning the central heating off in February.
What will happen in twenty years time when the earth naturally cools down again, will we all get rebates for the years we have paid for carbon off-setting, or green taxes on petrol and air fares. I think not.
Its all headline grabbing bollocks - go with the science.
Just as the general public begin to smell a rat with this man-made climate change stuff, the Tories choose to come up with a policy that will upset most of their potential voters. Why not endorse punitive road pricing and the identity care while they are at it?
They need concentrate on what people want: the ability to earn a good living and the ability to enjoy the proceeds of their efforts without excessive constraint by government be it by taxes, regulations or external threats.
B’Liar and nuLieBore got in mainly because they were not the Tories. The current tiny lead in the polls is for the exact same reason. Policies like this one will only give the public a reason not to vote Tory again.
When the earth follows its' natural cycle and cools in a few years it'll be presented as a vindication of the actions taken now.
Fancy trying to do that, the generics who fly to Spain for the winter won't like him ,neither will us scum ,going away for the wedding pissup is going to get expensive,still he wont get in anyway, Iv'e not made my mind up yet ,sorry guys with dave in no chance.
For anyone who missed the excellent documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" on Thursday, it is being repeated at 10 pm on Monday 11 March, on More4.
Guido, how about a post on this to encourage as many people as possible to see it.
1:04 PM
Can't get myself to believe anthing that shoved tv ,these days,saying that I did enjoy seeing the trial of blair, on last night ,now if only.
anon 1:04
The entire prog (1h 15min) is currently showing on the littlegreenfootballs site.
My wife's been one of those greeny types for years ,well before it became fashionable ,its always been a pain ,dumping the stuff at tesco's ,but now the council has given us 3 bins to split our rubbish into ,I keep thinking of how much energy has been used in making these bins.
Anon 1:39 - plus the fact that all recycled waste goes into landfill sites anyway. The EU obligation is only to collect and sort household waste into recyclable categories. There's no obligation to actually recycle so most authorities don't.
It's always amusing at our local bottle bank to see a single lorry turn up and tip all the carefully sorted clear, green, and brown bottles into a single load.
If they were going to do anything serious about it ,why haven't they hit a packaging industry with heavy taxes ,let's face it our gran's were more green than we will ever be with one brown bag ,us plastic outer ,cardboard box ,plastic moulding inside.
Whenever I do my monthly trip to my maison secondaire in Europe I do so in my 3.5 litre 4-wheel drive SUV.
Much better than those cheap flights.
And when I get back to England, the SUV handles those road-humps so much better; I'm surprised everyone doesn't have one.
2:01 PM
As they say, well whatever grips.
It's those SUV's outside school's that should be taxed
BANG!
The slap heeeeeeded one bangs yet another nail into the coffin of the "new" conservative party.
Great!
If only Patrick mercer , could summon up al his ex NCO's ,including the black ones,
arm themselves and stage a coup (the black chaps know where to get the really good guns that are banned)I have a funny feeling that the country would breath sigh of relief , let the army run the country for 5 years and i guarantee you that this would once again be a decent place to live.
3:03 PM
Guess he's jumped on another bandwagon ,the fall from this one could be hard ,I think most people agree this is another tax job, well down our local they do.
Looks like Cameron has not seen the Great Global Warming Swindle..repeated on More 4 this Moday at 10pm
Basically Sun activity and Solar wind affect the cosmic rays that cause cloud on earth. As earth warms the sea gives of more CO2 all Gore's film shows CO" increase following temp not the other way round.
So unless Tory taxes can affect sunspots and thus the solar wind.. this is an idot's tax
3:23 PM
Why is everybody pushing this, I think your the 3rd in this post.
So beat the tax!
Go Eurostar to Paris. Then take Air France.
Result - will finally kill off BA!
Cameron's going to look a complete ass when C4 prove the green stuff is all one big scam...
Why has Cameron signed up Al Gore?
Guido isn't seriously asking us to believe that he travels on the cheapo airlines with the ordinaries is he...?
Presume NetJets exempt. Flying commercial so pre-9/11.
Maggie Thatcher Fan:
What tax rate will be applied if I fart ?
George O thinks that "Aviation is under taxed". Oh, does he? So is fresh air and anal sex. When will he get around to those two? Taxation is not obligatory George.
Taxation should be a last resort, not the default one..."Aviation is under taxed". So what? Rail Travel is badly run, so why not tackle that?
Visit my blog and win a visit to Disney World. (Premium rates may apply)
Brown is bankrupting the economy with massive debt. He is going to have to raise taxes, even more than he already has, and Cameron knows that an incoming Conservative government will be faced with having to pay-off the Labour debts, as they did in '79 and taxes remained high in the early '80s as a result.
They'll need to raise revenues and the bogus eco-argument is the most obvious excuse to legitimise a tax rise.
It's like claiming that fags and booze are taxed because it is bad for you and they are trying to discourage harmful habits, everyone knows that the government is only interested in raising revenues. The difference is, that smoking and drinking too much IS proven to be bad for you. The science around Global warming is probably bollocks, but it is fashionable to jump on the bandwagon.
Politically it doesn't mean much as the major parties will all be saying the same thing.
Since our maison secondaire is more than 3000 miles away - I guess if Bullingdon Bertie ever gets in it'll have to become the maison premiere.
Ah well - just have to put up with 15% income tax, cheap booze and playing with the boat for our sunset years.
Bye bye Gordon old bean we'll let you know where to send the pension
Strikes me there's at best a lot of posturing on the topic and at worst (as per Mitch) a lot of complete bollox certainly on the recycling front.
I believe its a prime case for tax hypothecation ideally with all party agreement, as its not exactly a short term problem.
Come up with a trendy name for the tax & then have a negative version of the tax eliminating the VAT on eg cycles sailboats et al.
The neutrality of the taxes can then be demonstrated/monitored/reported on etc.
I think I heard that Dave & George are havinga formal consultation on the topic.
Hows about as part of this a blog is set up to receive comments/inputs to start a credible process rather than the wholly discredited methodology developed by Nulab whereby not even the responses to consultations are published simply their intrpretation of them.
All a bit heavy for a Sunday - of to tittle tattle somewhere!
This is a real own goal.
He's being hypnotised by the greens within his party.
Tax increases never solved anything, they are there simply to steal and to punish, that is why they are so beloved by Labour.
If he really cared about the planet he'd put more money into research, as well as realizing that this country hardly makes a dent globally.
5:56 PM
If your correct in what you say,why isn't Dave shouting it from the rooftops ,he should be leading and not following this gabage we have in power, or are we going back to roundabouts and bandwagons ,if this is the case my vote will go on the fruit@nutcase parties
The labour manifesto of 1983 has gone down in history as the 'longest suicide note in political history', this will go down in history as the shortest. Ha ha ha.
The Conservative proposals are not that bad in themselves, but they are based on unsound evidence and an unsound premise.
The evidence: the consultation paper relies on an IFS study which concludes that demand for air travel is highly elastic, so using tax mechanisms could influence demand. There are two problems with this. The IFS conclusion was based on Canadian research and IFS has admitted that it does not know whether the Canadian work was based on market observation or mere academic theory; real world data shows that despite an almost 100% increase in the aviation fuel price between 2004-6, the number of flights still rose.
It also assumes that new taxes will persuade our airlines to switch to cleaner fleets. But we are not a third world country - the UK fleet is about as up to date as is possible.
So while replacing Air Passenger Duty with an emission tax and trying to deter very short-haul domestic flights is probably a good idea, don't expect too much environmental benefit from these proposals.
PS: the Tory review group was told all this.
Thinking about it wont this help to shoot down the new EU plane that we help to make the wings for ,anyway I thought the Cons were for business not to help kill it ,so could our Dave be a socialist in disguise of a Con.
Dave - I'm a tory, a party member and have voted Tory all my life. What is this nonsense? Drop the green bullshit please - it's a swindle by the left to attack capitalism. If you go to election planning to RAISE taxes then you won't get my vote
"For anyone who missed the excellent documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" on Thursday, it is being repeated at 10 pm on Monday 11 March, on More4"
The 'UKIP tendency' have been there, done that and bought the T-Shirt:
http://www.ukip.tv/?page_id=3
'The Great Global Warming Swindle',is an incovenient truth for the political concensus of most parties in the UK,precisely because they all intend to swindle the electorate on the basis of demonstrably dodgy evidence.
This is Cameron trying to take a lead on all the other politicians in Europe who are desperate to show their so called "green credentials". How do they propose to keep a log of all individual's flights in order to charge his proposed inflated tax? This is so unworkable and unjust.
Al Gore is addressing the conservative party later this month. I wonder how many "personal air miles" he has used traveling the globe and touting his global salvation rhetoric? Double Standards? How dare they preach to us?
'The Great Global Warming Swindle' is a load of bollocks, and has been edited to misrepresent the views of many of the scientists featured.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled/
If you are going to use science as an argument get the science right first...
will the last rational person to leave the country please swith off the low energy lightbulb.
anyonebutblair said...
"Dave - I'm a tory, a party member and have voted Tory all my life. What is this nonsense? Drop the green bullshit please - it's a swindle by the left to attack capitalism. If you go to election planning to RAISE taxes then you won't get my vote
7:13 PM"
Be realistic. No major political party, in Europe or the US these days (Even Bush has succumbed), would ignore the climate change issue or dismiss it as bullshit publicly. It would be electoral suicide, given the mass media acceptance and advocation of the the CO2 bullshit (especially the BBC). The bandwagon will come off it's wheels at some point, but until then, Dave the Rave, Gordon the one-eyed monster and Ming "old Mr Grace" Campbell (and their successors) will be firmly on board.
But Guido, Dave doesn't want to incentivise or stimulate business. Dave doesn't have a business - he lives off the taxpayers, and his massive pension will be paid by them (and their children and grandchildren). Dave wants to be the Conservative Party of the State, Mr Firm-but-Fair Carrot-and-Stick. His view (like Wilson and Callaghan in the 1960s/1970s - and not unlike Heath) is that business will take care of itself, and even enjoy having its teeth kicked in. His latest air tax idea is a deliberate pitch for the politics-of-envy sillybilly LibDem middle-of-the-road classes. We'll all have to pay higher air fares so Dave can capture Richmond for some airhead A-lister with a private jet conveniently close to Notting Hill.
It is just as well we ignored the global scientific consensus in the 70s that man was causing global cooling. The Russians wanted to paint polar ice black to absorb more heat from the sun!
Good article...
http://www.iea.org.uk/record.jsp?type=book&ID=403
Global Warming False Alarms
In the twenty-fifth IEA Current Controversies Paper, Russell Lewis, former Director of the Conservative Political Centre and former Acting General Director of the Institute of Economic Affairs, argues that there are good reasons to challenge the case for political intervention to reduce carbon emissions.
The author suggests that the government claim that global warming is more threatening than terrorism is alarmist and unwarranted. It is also suspect as an excuse for mounting taxes and controls. It is strikingly similar to the dire predictions of 40 years ago of an imminent ice age and to other past doom forecasts due to alleged overpopulation, depletion of food and fuel supplies, and chemical pollution.
What tax rate will be applied if I fart ?
I believe Milliblink covered this in today's Times - we're all to get personal carbon allowances, whihc we can even trade with each other, all day long if we want! it's amazing how little some idiots, some dodgy IT salesmen, some stupid ideas and billions of pounds of someone else's money can achieve
Come on lads. This is lovely move. It might not happen, if it did it can't for three years, it puts everybody who buys into greeness on the back foot, especially Guardian readers, and Labour has been forced to trash the idea. And southern Liberals warm a bit more to Dave.
Not bad for a morning's work.
DC better drop this turning worm soon or its going to soon climb up somewhere very dark and nasty.
Our only hope is that someone tells him he is mad and why very quickly.
Its one thing for politicians and educationists to brain wash whole generations of people about the impending doom that is MM GW.
Its quite another to get the public to love them when the suckers find out its going to cost them lots of extra government taxes.
Somebody tell him PLEASE.
One small hope is that the BBC, now that Cameron has nailed his testicals to the MM GW flag poll.
Is that they will suddenly find out, that their pet subject is just a massive, fast buck for big business and government, swindle after all.
So some good may come out of it.
Mr A Tree says: "'The Great Global Warming Swindle' is a load of bollocks, and has been edited to misrepresent the views of many of the scientists featured".
So at worst (ie if what you say is true) then some of the campaigners for the non-anthropogenic climate change side are no worse than the pro-anthros.
That really just emphasises the point that perhaps we should all stop what we are doing, take a deep breath and start looking at the information wityh a clear mind. It certainly doesn't reinforce the argument for slapping taxes on everything sommer net.
Please, please, please remove this twat from the leadership of what was once a great political party.
If you discount the global warming issues there are still good reasons to discourage heavy use of fossil fuels by UK citizens - the middle east situation illustrates some of them. It's much more diplomatic to try to reduce oil use on ecological grounds than to state openly that you want to reduce the power of the big oil producing states.
As for "what is wrong with buying cheap goods" - nothing if you are an entrepreneur who is fostering chinese emergence as the main world superpower but everything if you want the UK to have any manufacturing industry.
nothing if you are an entrepreneur who is fostering chinese emergence as the main world superpower
Sorry but it is the Banks and the Politicians that are doing that by imposing Costs on European businesses and churning shares...... Retailers are favoured over Maufacturers and so drive input costs down to levels requiring Chinese labour in factories and Portuguese and Polish labour on farms and food-processing
Geezer, sadly you are right.
Us proles ... maison secondaire ... tax relief on taut "Sailing Yachts" ... what are you on Mr Fawkes?
Is it possible the Chancellor is finally turning to Guido for inspiration:
"People want to make the right choices and they want help to take the right decisions. Government must provide practical help with, where ever possible, incentives in preference to penalties," he will say, according to Treasury officials.
"Changes must be considered, costed, credible and consumer friendly not ill-conceived, short-termist, unworkable and unfair."
Shall we see him be the first PM to arrive at the House in a rowing boat (followed presumably by his red boxes in a ChrisCraft)?
If only I believed him.
So called green taxes need to be used as a simple incentive to encourage us to change our habits, I am sure that more suitable methods can be arrived at than taxing airplane travel!
Cameron is all wind.
Political flatulence!
So, we tax the hell out of cars, planes, lorries etc. a "green" tax to make the world a safer place and all that. Meanwhile, China, America and India do nothing except increase the size of their economies. This Stand Alone Complex of the UK doing all this work and making a difference is bollocks. We are too small to make any percentage difference to the total output of these gases. Until all the countries do something, we are pissing in the wind.
But damn doesn't Dave look oh-so-green.
And thats if any of this actually will make a difference. That C4 documentary was an interesting slant....that will be ignored by Dave. Band wagon jumping idiot!
I have spent several years looking closely at the science behind Global Warming etc. I can recommend that C4 programme as it states some of the 'inconvenient truths' that the eco-fanatics don't want to hear.
Spot on Guido. I am very concerned about Cameron and his wet top team.
I will make my mind up who to vote for when the election comes but at the moement it would not be Tory ( for the first time). They are just not interested in ordinary people. But if you remember they were going to charge the full rate of VAT on electricity etc.but got chucked out.
That's it, then: the first "policy" we get from this lot are proposals to raise taxes. Taxes, moreover, which will do nothing to tackle the problem they are allegedly addressing. Although, the problem they are allegedly addressing probably isn't the problem anyway.
We are already governed by utter idiots, and the only altnerative seems to be an even bigger set of idiots.
Certainly time for a coup at Central Office.
The thing is, us outsiders look on, our horror only mitigated by the thought that "he can't possiblyl mean it/be that dumb." But as time goes on, it all becomes horribly convincing.
Of course a fundemental problem you may have all overlooked is that YOU LIVE ON AN ISLAND. For the UK to do business, compete and succeed then the folks that need to travel to do business er... generally have to fly. Over here in Europe we can easily harp on about flying and the environment etc, because we can let the train take the strain...and they run generally on time, are clean etc blah blah.
In the UK, the goverment (now and whatever colour it is in the future) would be better off arguing for Kyoto/emmisson opt outs owing to simple fact of UKs geography.
i just heard George Osborne on the Jeremy Vine radio show , wittering on with fulsome greeny weeny platitudes about taxing us all like some deranged ecofascist.
the Tory leadership have completely lost the fucking plot. news headlines today have been nothing but "tories to tax us even more than the other shower of cunts". Osborne isnt even ADDRESSING the central tenent of taxation - whether it is morally right for the government to rob us of our hard earned money.
Fuck them and their greenery. i'm off to UKIP.
The time has come when the Tory Party must drop this idiot Cameron.
(And Osborne seems to be in the same mould.)
There is a very simple solution that will allow Cameron to appear green and also appeal to tax cutting conservatives.
Impose a proper CO2 equivalence tax on all fuels (including aviation fuel and marine fuel) at the rate of Euro 40 per tonne of CO2 (which is the maximum price allowed under the EU Emissions trading scheme) and then remove all VAT on fuels and remove Air Passenger Duty.
The net result will be hardly any change to the price of energy but all CO2 will be treated equally no matter who or how it is emitted.
Better still remove all Road fuel Duty, Car Tax, VAT and Air Passenger Duty but impose a CO2 tax and a congestion charge to bring in the same amount of revenue. That way if we are wrong on Climate Change (which I think is a load of rubbish) then at least we will not have done any damage by imposng grene taxes and posisbley doen a bit of good by getting other pollutants and road congestion down.
I'm a frequent flyer...wow these reefers are strong...lay orf my mate Dave....frazzzle....he's not finking st8 since he had that skunk in the bicycle shed...hey man.............falls...
One thing is for sure there is a lot of CO2 coming from the mouths of those pointless fuckwits in Parliment. If they shut up, Britian could probably easily meet Kyoto standards........
OK for Gordon to hike "green" air taxes for us proles - doesn't he get his trips home paid by us taxpayers?
Fly Ryanair to Dublin for intercontinental travel - cheaper than Eurostar
DC is losing the plot. Why does he want to act like Gordie?
What's this "sailboats" word?
Come over all American have we?
Anyway, even El Gordo hasn't found a way to tax the wind yet (yet!) so you'll all be please to hear that yachts don't actually pay any particular taxes.
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