Well done for dogedly persuing this story. It probably is a bit of a slow burner, and we will have to see where it goes but it certainly wont help Gordon.
It's worth remembering that Gordon had problems with sleaze and spin doctors long before Blair did. Remember Charlie Wheelan being forced to resign? Remember also that corrupt bargain between Mandelsson and Geoffrey Robinson. Remember that an aggravating factor in Mandy's resignation was that his department was investigating Robinson for corruption? Oh and who now is behind the Sith Institute? None other than our dear friend Robinson.
I think there's a lot to be said for the view that Brown has still got a thing or two to teach Blair about lies and corruption and they're not good.
Please please let Ed Balls have to answer to paxman about this! Using the force i foresee much blinking and a nervos breakdown...... Gordon must be apoplectic with dark side rage at all this coming to light.
Spiro T. Agnew was vice - president of the USA from 1968 to 1973. He helped the leader of the country win a large election victory in 1972, despite the USA's participation in an unpopular war and he was preparing to run for president in 1976. Whilst most attention was focused on Richard Nixon's underhand tricks Agnew was suddenly forced to resign in 1973 on being charged with tax evasion and money laundering.
Speaking of somnolence when is Gordon's wothy tome ' Courage of heroes ' scheduled for release? The publishers may find they've got an even bigger turkey on their hands after all these revelations
Now stop it all of you, this is a non-story. Ed and Gordon have done nothing wrong, anthing they have done was in good faith. You right wing bloggers are just trying to smere them because your lot were sleezey as everone knows. Ed and Gordon have sorted out the mess you left in 1997, now we have a stong economy, no more boom and bust ... you are pathetic.
Now stop it all of you, this is a non-story. Ed and Gordon have done nothing wrong, anthing they have done was in good faith. You right wing bloggers are just trying to smere them because your lot were sleezey as everone knows. Ed and Gordon have sorted out the mess you left in 1997, now we have a stong economy, no more boom and bust ... you are pathetic. "
I don't know what Gay Gordo's relationship to the Sith is, but I think his mother might have been a collateral branch of the Goldsith family; at least, that is where Gay Gordo's legendary skill at precious-metal trading is said to come from. He is unlikely to be related to MJK Sith, who captained England at cricket, but his second cousin played bass for Aerosith, which is perhaps where Gay Gordo gets his penchant for beat combo music like the Arctic Monkeys from.
Says a fucking lot about our political system and press when it takes some Irish geezer sat at home fucking about with is apple mac to be a more effective opposition than potato head and his shower of over paid otherwise unemployable tossers. Don't vote for any of them you will only end up disappointed. Voting is like going to a lap dancing club, you get all excited and then end up skint and frustrated
All a consequence of what happens when there is a credible electable alternative and the establishment you have been making mad passionate love to for 10 years starts getting bored.
The likes of astro turfer are in for a shock, as are half the cabinet at least, if they dont quickly cotton on to the fact that times have changed. It is not 1997 anymore. New Labours time in government is now numbered, the smart rats are looking for their life-jackets.
Its not a matter of sleeze, although the amount is important. What matters is why, how, when, and by whom it gets reported on the MSM.
So whilst people seriously interested in politics are reading about the Sith on Guido and elsewhere on the Blog, what does our state owned, subsidised, 'we do it better because we're not market led' BBC think more important?
Apparently some bird mag has done a poll that's found Gordon Brown to be the 97th sexiest man in Britain. I'm glad to know that money extorted off the poorest people in the land through the licence fund is being well spent. Keep it up, BBC, it can't be too much longer before you're abolished.
How is this a story? Gordon Brown has links to a think tank set up in memory of John Smith, which, accordingly, is run by Labour Party members and produces Labour-leaning material sometimes found to be of use to a Labour Government.
Sorry a bit of a tangent here... Anyone buy into the rumour that, that nice Mr.Blair has been getting up to no good with the beautiful Ms.Turner. I think it is crassly described as "getting jiggy jiggy with Mr. Blairs biggie"
David Lindsay said... How is this a story? Gordon Brown has links to a think tank set up in memory of John Smith, which, accordingly, is run by Labour Party members and produces Labour-leaning material sometimes found to be of use to a Labour Government.
What, that's it? THAT'S IT!
6:00 PM
Another Fucking Astro Turfer.... Are you Fucking Mad or Sad?
You are masquarading as a Fucking Charity, when in fact you a a Fucking Sleaze Bag taking bribes for EMI or whatever else
Sly, sleezy, and underhand Typical Get real, your time has come
Mr. Lindsay, do you perhaps, er work for the Labour Party? How anyone can find it OK that a charitable institute that recieves significant tax breaks (i.e. subsidy from you and more importantly, me), is basically a political front for Gordon Brown and is the shell of the blind trust he used to have many years ago. It's primary function is to funnel money from donors and to assist Gordon and his henchmen in their political campaigns PS like the rumor about Tony "Jiggy Jiggy" Blair....
What about this secret computer system that ITN and the BBC are saying that No. 10 are denying they've got. Its alleged to hold emails between Turner and Powell.
6.34pm Its part of the gallactic globalist system, instructins from planet zoril are sent down the wires striaght into the ofices of our governments. The govt officials then undertake the work of the Zorillians doing exactly what they demand or else planet earth gets lasered.
This of course explains why 99% of what governments do is the exact opposite of the wishes of the public. But what would you prefer bad governements or to get frazzled with a nuclear laser from a far away galaxy, its a simple choice.
Anonymous said... Sorry a bit of a tangent here... Anyone buy into the rumour that, that nice Mr.Blair has been getting up to no good with the beautiful Ms.Turner. I think it is crassly described as "getting jiggy jiggy with Mr. Blairs biggie"
Tony's shagging Ruth and Gordo's shagging Konrad. They're all bang at it but isn't it sexual abuse? Shagging the underlings, abuse of power and all that?
Hidden Computer Claim Updated: 19:05, Thursday January 25, 2007
Detectives investigating the cash-for-honours affair have reportedly uncovered a "hidden" computer network at Number 10.
ITV News claimed the system had been used to send crucial emails - which now appear to have been deleted.
Downing Street issued a swift denial to the allegations, saying the story was untrue.
The report claimed the existence of a second IT system in the building had been revealed to the police by a witness.
The information reportedly led to the arrest last week Ruth Turner, the director of Government relations and one of Tony Blair's closest aides.
ITV also alleged that officers discovered emails last autumn which were apparently exchanged between Labour fundraiser Lord Levy, Turner and Mr Blair's chief of staff Jonathan Powell....
O Lord our God arise, Scatter her enemies, And make them fall: Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix: God save us all
According to ITV tonight they'll all get off scot free.
If there is a 'second system' does it have any deleted emails dealing with Iraq?(These things are done by word of mouth so I doubt it but you never really know for sure).
a) CPS has decided not to prosecute b) Yates & co are angry and are going to leak everything they have into the public domain to try in court of public opinion
Denials, naturally - though given the obsession this lot have with IT, playing silly buggers with computer systems is all too believable. Better still, their penchant for fucking up IT projects makes one optimistic that they've made a mess of this one too, if it exists.
Come on experts - given such a discreet system, what about servers and the like?
when you delete a file or an email, it leaves traces behind, it also leaves logs, so if the logs dont match up with the available emails, then yu know that some have been deleted. the logs will also show the IP address of the sender if they are incomming emails, so police can check the sending machine.
deleting a file does not actually delete it, only its registry entry in the folder, and is recoverable.
If they using MS-XP, then history files are also created, at 3 different levels, 2 of which are possibly accessable by the user and the administrator, the 3rd level you need forensic tools to get to it, therefore so long as they have the machine, they can get to the files.
unless of course the machines have been formatted at least 3 times, military standard, at which point recovery is virtually impossible.
I doubt if they find anything let alone on a server.
Isn't there now encription that gives you two passwords to give out under torture, which lead to innocent material, whilst it's the third one that hides the shit people are looking for.
if they have been using webmail, the ISP will have a copy, (under blairs own retention laws), and if they use GMail then the CIA and the NSA will have acopy.
when you delete a file or an email, it leaves traces behind
Yes usually on the Email Server. Whatever Downing Street has it passes through an Email Server and thanks to H M Govt ISPs must keep the Emails for 24 months minimum so you don't really need the laptops just the Email Server.
I somehow cannot imagine Ruth taking out her HDD and drilling it full of holes and if MI5 hasn't put a few keyloggers on the machines I should be very disappointed...in fact if the phones aren't tapped and the rooms don't record I shall feel we've left it all to the SVR
the techi stuff I just gave is only for the pc, and didnt blair pass a law saying that if you dont give the pasword to plod you get locked up.
for servers its much more difficult to get rid of. then you need to look at 4 levels which even the administrators cannot get to, and the backups, probably off site or on another machine..
If Yates really wants to find it, there will probably be something to find, if he is allowed to go any further.
THREE anti-torture passwords. That is impressive. But now everybody knows, won't the goons just say, 'Give us the third or we tear ALL your limbs off.'
deniable encryption. seen it before. its for giving a false lead. you give plod a password, he sees what you want him to see.
it still doesnt stop layer 3 and 4 of MS XP and Vista from making history copies of the real files you read. and you need MS to give you the password for that, along with forensic tools.
its a smoke and mirrors programme that sits on the top level (layer 1), so you use their filing system rather than the stndard MS NTFS system.
Just checking... wondered if a 'secret' system could have its own dedicated server at the back of Toni's sock drawer or something. If you can't trace the server you're stuffed, right? And if the system is for internal use only - no outside link, in other words....
ok, technically its going to be more difficult if its been hidden. But plod and other agencies have scanning equipment that will find a hidden machine, they could even sit outside in a car or van and tell you where each machine is located, and if it has a screen, watch what your watching.
unless the machine has been built to Tempest standard, it will emit an EM pulse (tempest blocks this), making it detectable.
I can't compete on the technical know-how but, surely, if there is a separate network within No 10 its alleged justification will have been for exchanging info about top secret anti terrorism activity. That will mean that whatever else it is really used for it will be easy to stop plod accessing it on grounds of national security - the perennial Blair defence.
Lets hope Accenture, EDS or Capita set up the system coz if they did, based upon their HMG IT records any encription or otherwise will be completely crap and any plod graduate trainee will crack it
There could be a single "system" with a highly encrypted "virtual private network" for data of a sensitive nature, which is not physically separate. Although normally there has to be an "air gap" for anything which is not for broadcast.
Wow, that was some programme from Jeff Randall on ITV just now: Gordon Brown the PENSION SNATCHER, the crook who destroyed the best pension system in Europe.
Fortunately for Gordo his main rival is henceforth to be called: John Reid the paedophiles friend after today's farce in Mold Crown Court.
That's put the final kybosh on Reid's fading leadership ambitions. I wonder who will be Blair's new champion to take on Brown?
One thing's for sure, with the economy deteriorating fast and Gordo now coming in the firing line he isn't going to have it all his own way.
But if the 'secret' email system is used for communication with MI5 / CIA / MI6 / Department for Homeland Security, might it not be considered 'classified' and therefore a 'secret squirrel system' which could legitimately be denied for 'national security reasons'?
In the same way that those CIA 'rendition flights' take non-existent prisoners to non-existent prisons...Loose lips...
Occurs to me that Reid's plan to buy some more prison ships could be linked to that scenario on the south coast...no need to arrest those thieves on the beach, just sweep them up and put them in that ship once the remaining cargo's removed - the job's a good 'un...
Do you think it's a mere coincidence that this tale of a 'secret e-mail system' at 10 Downing St has been leaked just as Brown is coming under the spotlight over the Smith Institute.
Brown's dirty tricks brigade are hard at work here. Are you listening Charlie?
If the 2nd email system is true and emails have been deleted (both denied by PMOS), and the system is not CHOTS or some other shsec (high security) email system....then this is Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice right in No.10. Blair cannot deny he didn't know and in any case given the proximity to him...he is gone. The champagne is ready to go.....
Erm, sorry to ruin the party, but we know that Peter Ainsworth wrote a contribution to a Smith institute publication only a couple of months ago (The Green Shift - published in November). And previous SI publications have included contributions from - amongst others Malcolm Rifkind and John Gummer.
So is Peter Ainsworth a fool duped into joining Brown's evil empire?? Is Malcolm Rifkind a useful idiot? Is John Gummer a NuLab stooge. Why are prominent Tories giving credibility to the Smith Institute at the same time as other Tories call for an inquiry? Do the opposition know their arse from their elbow? Is this all just a load of old toss?
Guido, please get back to who's shagging who. This baseless obsessive bollocks is no smoking gun and is getting distinclty boring.
I suspect Guido's not doing the computer story because it's rubbish. It didn't come from the police for a start so where else could Bradby have got it but someone in Labour with an agenda.
Think Brown trying to push Tony out.
Think John McTernan. A few days after his interview Ruths arrested. A few days after her arrest the man McTernan is trying to get re-elected is named as an interviewee and the McTernan's interview is leaked. Then we have this story which names every other Blair lieutenant bar McTernan.
Odd that.
It's Labour fighting like ferrets in a sack. Blair's version of Major's "bastards".
hate to say it, but I reckon a lot of top tories ARE involved. look at the voting records, the FOI gag from McLean, still think there more to come out..
Do you think it's a mere coincidence that this tale of a 'secret e-mail system' at 10 Downing St has been leaked just as Brown is coming under the spotlight over the Smith Institute.
Brown's dirty tricks brigade are hard at work here. Are you listening Charlie? 10.32 PM
My thoughts entirely.....
Funny Brown never likes the Brown stuff when the wind is against him
There isnt a second email sysstem in my humble opinion - there is a confidential database thats written in lotus notes - a system more commonly recognised as an email platform but one that also can be used for database work.
the system is primarily used by labour employees and although partly ran by no10 staff access is severly restricted, in the same way the the parliament IT department have to provide impartial service to the parties who have MPs so do the no10 staff have to be impartial when helping the party-in-power therefore there is a kind of 2 tier IT infrastructure in no10 and also the palace of westminister.
the database access is for staff in the no10 office of the labour party, powell and his staff and also key minsters spads, they contribute briefing documents, in various stages of preparation before being used by other spads to present key ideas to ministers and ultimatley TB himself, all the speeches and statements and PMQ briefs are in there, going all the way back to 97. Not national security stuff I`m sure, more public fluff.
How do I know this ? several things stop me from saying publicaly without putting myself in obvious peril, but I have a copy of this forensically provable information, with the last entry over a year ago.
tens of thousands of documents, going back 10 years, im sure there is something horrible in there but I lack the political nouse to interpret - that and the sheer volume.
I would love to whistle blow this but cant afford the enemies or the prison time - sensible suggestions please ??
private offshore held email addresses of interested parties preferably, this is something tangible I can just leave somewhere and let someone pickup (i would be that cautious about this)
I have come to the conclusion that it is not so much "Astro-Turfing" that Labour is so excellent at but the art of discovering complete f*cking imbeciles and pointing them at any blog-du-jour to spam totally inane and pointless comments until the blog loses all credibility and becomes an object of laughter and derision. Perhaps one of the reasons that paedophiles are being released back into the community is so that the abundance of saliva droolers we see in the above comments can continue to bang out their paranoia on Broadmoor's tethered old Macs, all the while under close-knit supervision from Powell, Campbell and Turner.
Kind of like Crazy People, only with dribbling anonymongs instead the luscious Ms Hannah and company ...
actually i think me message is more for the gf himself so if you could see your way to deleting the post as soon as youve read it and then publish an safe email address i`ll be in touch, the quicker the better, you know this is the same poster from my IP address.
Lotus Notes is also known as a 3 dimensional database, and the email portion is just one of those bases.
If setup on a network, and/or dialup access, it also is a self replicating database, therefore if the above post is true, there is more than one copy of it.
11:41 is correct, and that doesnt disprove me, not that im seeking approval.
11:44 is also correct but I want a foreign managed email address to send some details to, not something hosted in the EMEA regions.
sorry to be so dramatic sounding but I might as well offload this thing and I have to be cagey. this is something physical with serial numbers and verifiable data contained therin.
154 comments:
"Guido to Blue Leader - I'm Going In - Cover Me"
How long now until you are all clear so we can just blow this thing and go home?
Gordy's going to look pretty embarrassed when this all develops. A little bit of sleaze before he even becomes PM. Oh dear. :oP
Never mind all that shit.
Guido - did you know your blog is worth $372,031.86?
Well done for dogedly persuing this story. It probably is a bit of a slow burner, and we will have to see where it goes but it certainly wont help Gordon.
Don't tell me GB is going to be purer than pure too!
It's worth remembering that Gordon had problems with sleaze and spin doctors long before Blair did. Remember Charlie Wheelan being forced to resign? Remember also that corrupt bargain between Mandelsson and Geoffrey Robinson. Remember that an aggravating factor in Mandy's resignation was that his department was investigating Robinson for corruption? Oh and who now is behind the Sith Institute? None other than our dear friend Robinson.
I think there's a lot to be said for the view that Brown has still got a thing or two to teach Blair about lies and corruption and they're not good.
When does it bring down the government? what needs to happen before the sleaze engulfs not just bliar but the entire ship?
Whatever it is, it won't be straightforward...
Please please let Ed Balls have to answer to paxman about this! Using the force i foresee much blinking and a nervos breakdown......
Gordon must be apoplectic with dark side rage at all this coming to light.
1st E. Howard Hunt Memorial Lecture
Spiro T. Agnew was vice - president of the USA from 1968 to 1973. He helped the leader of the country win a large election victory in 1972, despite the USA's participation in an unpopular war and he was preparing to run for president in 1976. Whilst most attention was focused on Richard Nixon's underhand tricks Agnew was suddenly forced to resign in 1973 on being charged with tax evasion and money laundering.
Speaking of somnolence when is Gordon's wothy tome ' Courage of heroes ' scheduled for release? The publishers may find they've got an even bigger turkey on their hands after all these revelations
Guillotine the lot of them I say. A total fucking disgrace of a government.
Anon 4.18,
Agree with you - they should all be given the rope. Done by Iraqi amateurs with mobile phones.
"Oh shit, GORDON'S HEAD'S COME OFF. Oh no, my mistake - just his dark helmet..."
Great to see the Tories jumping on board at the last minute. Where have they been up until now?
Now stop it all of you, this is a non-story. Ed and Gordon have done nothing wrong, anthing they have done was in good faith. You right wing bloggers are just trying to smere them because your lot were sleezey as everone knows. Ed and Gordon have sorted out the mess you left in 1997, now we have a stong economy, no more boom and bust ... you are pathetic.
" A.S.T.R O'Turfer said...
Now stop it all of you, this is a non-story. Ed and Gordon have done nothing wrong, anthing they have done was in good faith. You right wing bloggers are just trying to smere them because your lot were sleezey as everone knows. Ed and Gordon have sorted out the mess you left in 1997, now we have a stong economy, no more boom and bust ... you are pathetic. "
Clearly a product of the NuLab education system.
Twunt.
postmodern 'aware' Brownite astro-turfers now...Thye just can't stop themselves can they?
Have the Brownites actually produced a template for their astro-turf clone army to use here?
"old hat, non-story, drop it Guido"
Convinving stuff team sith.
I don't know what Gay Gordo's relationship to the Sith is, but I think his mother might have been a collateral branch of the Goldsith family; at least, that is where Gay Gordo's legendary skill at precious-metal trading is said to come from. He is unlikely to be related to MJK Sith, who captained England at cricket, but his second cousin played bass for Aerosith, which is perhaps where Gay Gordo gets his penchant for beat combo music like the Arctic Monkeys from.
Hope this helps.
astro turfer? Get fucked I'm not on the right, I'm just disgusted with this bloody government.
I AM on the right, I am also disgusted with this government!
Whoever isn't disgusted with this government should wake up and stop reading the bloody Mirror!
Says a fucking lot about our political system and press when it takes some Irish geezer sat at home fucking about with is apple mac to be a more effective opposition than potato head and his shower of over paid otherwise unemployable tossers.
Don't vote for any of them you will only end up disappointed.
Voting is like going to a lap dancing club, you get all excited and then end up skint and frustrated
All a consequence of what happens when there is a credible electable alternative and the establishment you have been making mad passionate love to for 10 years starts getting bored.
The likes of astro turfer are in for a shock, as are half the cabinet at least, if they dont quickly cotton on to the fact that times have changed. It is not 1997 anymore. New Labours time in government is now numbered, the smart rats are looking for their life-jackets.
Its not a matter of sleeze, although the amount is important. What matters is why, how, when, and by whom it gets reported on the MSM.
Let the force be with you.
rickytshirt.
Mirror readers can’t read, that’s why they read the Mirror.
Anyway, even if they are innocent their seedy demeanour justifies the full use of the cow horn and hot poker enquiry.
So whilst people seriously interested in politics are reading about the Sith on Guido and elsewhere on the Blog, what does our state owned, subsidised, 'we do it better because we're not market led' BBC think more important?
Apparently some bird mag has done a poll that's found Gordon Brown to be the 97th sexiest man in Britain. I'm glad to know that money extorted off the poorest people in the land through the licence fund is being well spent. Keep it up, BBC, it can't be too much longer before you're abolished.
Anonymous 5:46,
My bitch of a girlfriend reads that arsewipe and she's read more books than I've thumbed through wank mags.
How is this a story? Gordon Brown has links to a think tank set up in memory of John Smith, which, accordingly, is run by Labour Party members and produces Labour-leaning material sometimes found to be of use to a Labour Government.
What, that's it? THAT'S IT!
I hope yates is taking note of the Brownite's hysteria!
Sorry a bit of a tangent here...
Anyone buy into the rumour that, that nice Mr.Blair has been getting up to no good with the beautiful Ms.Turner. I think it is crassly described as "getting jiggy jiggy with Mr. Blairs biggie"
Mr Lindsay
I assume you do not pay any taxes, or, if you do, you don't mind the money being misappropriated.
This is a description which not many people will feel applies to themselves. Hence the reaction.
I look forward to the day when the entire Cabinet is dressed up in jumpsuits and decapitated.
Dammit
It's Heddy
Not Hedley
Heddy Lamarr
David Lindsay said...
How is this a story? Gordon Brown has links to a think tank set up in memory of John Smith, which, accordingly, is run by Labour Party members and produces Labour-leaning material sometimes found to be of use to a Labour Government.
What, that's it? THAT'S IT!
6:00 PM
Another Fucking Astro Turfer....
Are you Fucking Mad or Sad?
You are masquarading as a Fucking Charity, when in fact you a a Fucking Sleaze Bag taking bribes for EMI or whatever else
Sly, sleezy, and underhand
Typical
Get real, your time has come
david Lindsay
are you congenitally deficient in thyroid hormones? It is about using charitable status inappropriately to evade TAX
Mr. Lindsay, do you perhaps, er work for the Labour Party? How anyone can find it OK that a charitable institute that recieves significant tax breaks (i.e. subsidy from you and more importantly, me), is basically a political front for Gordon Brown and is the shell of the blind trust he used to have many years ago. It's primary function is to funnel money from donors and to assist Gordon and his henchmen in their political campaigns
PS like the rumor about Tony "Jiggy Jiggy" Blair....
@ Anonymous 6.09
It's HEDLEY!
Hedley Lamarr @ 5:04pm: 'Twunt'? Is that similar to a 'Cat'? That would explain why Gorgeous George was dressed as one on Celebrity BB.
I'll bet Blair isn't very 'biggie' though.
What about this secret computer system that ITN and the BBC are saying that No. 10 are denying they've got. Its alleged to hold emails between Turner and Powell.
"twunt"?
Get with the kids, you old hat dudes
It's a "James Blunt" nowaday's
6.34pm Its part of the gallactic globalist system, instructins from planet zoril are sent down the wires striaght into the ofices of our governments. The govt officials then undertake the work of the Zorillians doing exactly what they demand or else planet earth gets lasered.
This of course explains why 99% of what governments do is the exact opposite of the wishes of the public. But what would you prefer bad governements or to get frazzled with a nuclear laser from a far away galaxy, its a simple choice.
get it?
Anonymous said...
Sorry a bit of a tangent here...
Anyone buy into the rumour that, that nice Mr.Blair has been getting up to no good with the beautiful Ms.Turner. I think it is crassly described as "getting jiggy jiggy with Mr. Blairs biggie"
Tony's shagging Ruth and Gordo's shagging Konrad. They're all bang at it but isn't it sexual abuse? Shagging the underlings, abuse of power and all that?
Or doesn't it apply to them?
Sky news just breaking news that a second secret email system has been found in downing st
Just been on Ch 5 news aswell: a second "secret" email system in Downing St has been uncovered by the police. Furious denials from the Blair camp.
Sleazier and sleazier...
Hidden Computer Claim
Updated: 19:05, Thursday January 25, 2007
Detectives investigating the cash-for-honours affair have reportedly uncovered a "hidden" computer network at Number 10.
ITV News claimed the system had been used to send crucial emails - which now appear to have been deleted.
Downing Street issued a swift denial to the allegations, saying the story was untrue.
The report claimed the existence of a second IT system in the building had been revealed to the police by a witness.
The information reportedly led to the arrest last week Ruth Turner, the director of Government relations and one of Tony Blair's closest aides.
ITV also alleged that officers discovered emails last autumn which were apparently exchanged between Labour fundraiser Lord Levy, Turner and Mr Blair's chief of staff Jonathan Powell....
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1248900,00.html
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all
According to ITV tonight they'll all get off scot free.
anon 7:10
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1248900,00.html
Luvvly jubbly
If there is a 'second system' does it have any deleted emails dealing with Iraq?(These things are done by word of mouth so I doubt it but you never really know for sure).
tuscan tony....last with the news, but first with youtube newsnight
What this looks like to me is
a) CPS has decided not to prosecute
b) Yates & co are angry and are going to leak everything they have into the public domain to try in court of public opinion
All-Wise Anon
I see bbc24 also mentioned it , in passing
its just come up on the BBC website as other stories...
This is getting so exciting for all of us...imagine how it must feel for our "Dear Leader"?
Does this mean theyv'e let the bottom of the list jurno's loose , or is it the spinmiesters trying to put people off
could be Gordo's mob trying to organise a house move early...
mr tuscan
gloating is such an ugly thing to do (+:
wonder if Newsnight will have the balls to cover this one tonight
or Guido, where's he gone? Cash for peerages and no comment... Has he been made the subject of a control order? sure he'll escape soon
He's probably on the blower to Yates of the Yard...
Newsnight I wouldn't think so ,that was a real power jump last night I think they will need some time to recover
Denials, naturally - though given the obsession this lot have with IT, playing silly buggers with computer systems is all too believable.
Better still, their penchant for fucking up IT projects makes one optimistic that they've made a mess of this one too, if it exists.
Come on experts - given such a discreet system, what about servers and the like?
when you delete a file or an email, it leaves traces behind, it also leaves logs, so if the logs dont match up with the available emails, then yu know that some have been deleted. the logs will also show the IP address of the sender if they are incomming emails, so police can check the sending machine.
deleting a file does not actually delete it, only its registry entry in the folder, and is recoverable.
If they using MS-XP, then history files are also created, at 3 different levels, 2 of which are possibly accessable by the user and the administrator, the 3rd level you need forensic tools to get to it, therefore so long as they have the machine, they can get to the files.
unless of course the machines have been formatted at least 3 times, military standard, at which point recovery is virtually impossible.
Is that the sound of the spin doctors running to the machines to start formatting
I doubt if they find anything let alone on a server.
Isn't there now encription that gives you two passwords to give out under torture, which lead to innocent material, whilst it's the third one that hides the shit people are looking for.
No use torturing Ruth Kelly as she would love it.
if they have been using webmail, the ISP will have a copy, (under blairs own retention laws), and if they use GMail then the CIA and the NSA will have acopy.
when you delete a file or an email, it leaves traces behind
Yes usually on the Email Server. Whatever Downing Street has it passes through an Email Server and thanks to H M Govt ISPs must keep the Emails for 24 months minimum so you don't really need the laptops just the Email Server.
I somehow cannot imagine Ruth taking out her HDD and drilling it full of holes and if MI5 hasn't put a few keyloggers on the machines I should be very disappointed...in fact if the phones aren't tapped and the rooms don't record I shall feel we've left it all to the SVR
the techi stuff I just gave is only for the pc, and didnt blair pass a law saying that if you dont give the pasword to plod you get locked up.
for servers its much more difficult to get rid of. then you need to look at 4 levels which even the administrators cannot get to, and the backups, probably off site or on another machine..
If Yates really wants to find it, there will probably be something to find, if he is allowed to go any further.
Interesting that this has finally just about scraped onto the Beeb's homepage
Formatting! It takes only a couple of minutes at most to PHYSICALLY replace the HD in the latest Apple machines which can run MS software just fine.
The evidence should be long gone IMHO.
THREE anti-torture passwords. That is impressive. But now everybody knows, won't the goons just say, 'Give us the third or we tear ALL your limbs off.'
8:39 PM
Computers are now white goods even 7 year old kids can break in to them ,even the police know how to use them :-)
they just dump the machines, but he passed a law about that as well, the greenies will do for him then....
7 year old plods, I keep saying how the police are looking younger these days....
http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/phonebook/
Deniable encryption for you Dear Lider.
just watch for the unmarked van at the end of downing st at midnight..
deniable encryption. seen it before. its for giving a false lead. you give plod a password, he sees what you want him to see.
it still doesnt stop layer 3 and 4 of MS XP and Vista from making history copies of the real files you read. and you need MS to give you the password for that, along with forensic tools.
its a smoke and mirrors programme that sits on the top level (layer 1), so you use their filing system rather than the stndard MS NTFS system.
but as soon as you open a file, MS copies it.....
Just checking... wondered if a 'secret' system could have its own dedicated server at the back of Toni's sock drawer or something. If you can't trace the server you're stuffed, right? And if the system is for internal use only - no outside link, in other words....
8:58 PM
Yeh but look at this gov ventures in IT , not a very good history
ok, technically its going to be more difficult if its been hidden. But plod and other agencies have scanning equipment that will find a hidden machine, they could even sit outside in a car or van and tell you where each machine is located, and if it has a screen, watch what your watching.
unless the machine has been built to Tempest standard, it will emit an EM pulse (tempest blocks this), making it detectable.
8:50 PM
If they just dumped the machines they will certainly end up in a car boot sale ,had some good one's ,but being nice I just reused the drives
Surely the whole street will be heavily screened so no emissions of any kind are detectable?
IMHO the stuff will be stored on one or more laptops ready for instant disposal - Westminster Bridge is nearby.
I can't compete on the technical know-how but, surely, if there is a separate network within No 10 its alleged justification will have been for exchanging info about top secret anti terrorism activity. That will mean that whatever else it is really used for it will be easy to stop plod accessing it on grounds of national security - the perennial Blair defence.
bloody BBC playing diversion tactics again...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/6299799.stm
story says it was in jan06, a year ago...Beeb must have these stored up for such events....
maybe ruth turner is the mole... last weeks exercise was to draw attention away from her being 'willing' to talk to Yates.
Lets hope Accenture, EDS or Capita set up the system coz if they did, based upon their HMG IT records any encription or otherwise will be completely crap and any plod graduate trainee will crack it
"This story is untrue. There is no second computer system at No10"
Prime minister's spokesman
Move along now, nothing to see here.
There could be a single "system" with a highly encrypted "virtual private network" for data of a sensitive nature, which is not physically separate. Although normally there has to be an "air gap" for anything which is not for broadcast.
true, there could be a VPN which means the host server could be virtually anywhere, but that would not stop plod recovering from the workstation/pc.
Wow, that was some programme from Jeff Randall on ITV just now: Gordon Brown the PENSION SNATCHER, the crook who destroyed the best pension system in Europe.
Fortunately for Gordo his main rival is henceforth to be called: John Reid the paedophiles friend after today's farce in Mold Crown Court.
That's put the final kybosh on Reid's fading leadership ambitions. I wonder who will be Blair's new champion to take on Brown?
One thing's for sure, with the economy deteriorating fast and Gordo now coming in the firing line he isn't going to have it all his own way.
rope, tree, forest..... be a gent mr blair...
Lance Price on Radio 5 now denying the secret email system, maybe a leak from the Brown camp in desperation to winkle Blair out.
Guido, where are you ? You are never here when a big story is leaked to the media.
What's that you say ? You're the one who is away doing the leaking..ah, I see, it is all becoming a lot clearer now....
Lance Price on live radio: "Tony Blair could be arrested and that would be pretty serious for him"
Really?
Followed by...
Charlie Falconer: " Only serious offenders should go to prison, keep paedophiles out of prison" (I paraphrase)
Don't you think kiddie porn is "serious" then Charlie boy?
The corruption and degradation of Britain is well under way.
But if the 'secret' email system is used for communication with MI5 / CIA / MI6 / Department for Homeland Security, might it not be considered 'classified' and therefore a 'secret squirrel system' which could legitimately be denied for 'national security reasons'?
In the same way that those CIA 'rendition flights' take non-existent prisoners to non-existent prisons...Loose lips...
Occurs to me that Reid's plan to buy some more prison ships could be linked to that scenario on the south coast...no need to arrest those thieves on the beach, just sweep them up and put them in that ship once the remaining cargo's removed - the job's a good 'un...
beginning to sound like its a job for Hong Kong Fuey...
or Danger Mouse and Penfold..
WAKEY WAKEY!!!!
Do you think it's a mere coincidence that this tale of a 'secret e-mail system' at 10 Downing St has been leaked just as Brown is coming under the spotlight over the Smith Institute.
Brown's dirty tricks brigade are hard at work here. Are you listening Charlie?
Bless you Guido, Bless you.If I want the truth I look you up and not the mainstream press and their bullshit and Govt line!!
Long may you blog!!!
If the 2nd email system is true and emails have been deleted (both denied by PMOS), and the system is not CHOTS or some other shsec (high security) email system....then this is Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice right in No.10. Blair cannot deny he didn't know and in any case given the proximity to him...he is gone. The champagne is ready to go.....
Erm, sorry to ruin the party, but we know that Peter Ainsworth wrote a contribution to a Smith institute publication only a couple of months ago (The Green Shift - published in November). And previous SI publications have included contributions from - amongst others Malcolm Rifkind and John Gummer.
So is Peter Ainsworth a fool duped into joining Brown's evil empire?? Is Malcolm Rifkind a useful idiot? Is John Gummer a NuLab stooge. Why are prominent Tories giving credibility to the Smith Institute at the same time as other Tories call for an inquiry? Do the opposition know their arse from their elbow? Is this all just a load of old toss?
Guido, please get back to who's shagging who. This baseless obsessive bollocks is no smoking gun and is getting distinclty boring.
I suspect Guido's not doing the computer story because it's rubbish. It didn't come from the police for a start so where else could Bradby have got it but someone in Labour with an agenda.
Think Brown trying to push Tony out.
Think John McTernan. A few days after his interview Ruths arrested. A few days after her arrest the man McTernan is trying to get re-elected is named as an interviewee and the McTernan's interview is leaked. Then we have this story which names every other Blair lieutenant bar McTernan.
Odd that.
It's Labour fighting like ferrets in a sack. Blair's version of Major's "bastards".
hate to say it, but I reckon a lot of top tories ARE involved. look at the voting records, the FOI gag from McLean, still think there more to come out..
Anyone catch Queen Kirstie of Kircaldie laying into Charlie Falconer on Newsnight just now about prison overcrowding?
Is she seeing herself losing power, and getting pretty het up about it?
and why are DC, DD and IDS not jumping all over blair and brown on this. I know they trying to promote their 'nice' image but there are limits..
Anonymous said...
WAKEY WAKEY!!!!
Do you think it's a mere coincidence that this tale of a 'secret e-mail system' at 10 Downing St has been leaked just as Brown is coming under the spotlight over the Smith Institute.
Brown's dirty tricks brigade are hard at work here. Are you listening Charlie?
10.32 PM
My thoughts entirely.....
Funny Brown never likes the Brown stuff when the wind is against him
more diversion from the beeb
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6297005.stm
if its GMail, its impossible to hide, it'll be stored on servers all over the world.
There's no "second email system", it's Brown, Whelan and co shit-stirring.
There's loads more to come so enjoy it. They're only just getting warmed up!
Its like the last days of John Major - except theres no actual politics involved - just various repugnant second class parasitical politicoes.
Et tu Brownass!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431483&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5
There isnt a second email sysstem in my humble opinion - there is a confidential database thats written in lotus notes - a system more commonly recognised as an email platform but one that also can be used for database work.
the system is primarily used by labour employees and although partly ran by no10 staff access is severly restricted, in the same way the the parliament IT department have to provide impartial service to the parties who have MPs so do the no10 staff have to be impartial when helping the party-in-power therefore there is a kind of 2 tier IT infrastructure in no10 and also the palace of westminister.
the database access is for staff in the no10 office of the labour party, powell and his staff and also key minsters spads, they contribute briefing documents, in various stages of preparation before being used by other spads to present key ideas to ministers and ultimatley TB himself, all the speeches and statements and PMQ briefs are in there, going all the way back to 97. Not national security stuff I`m sure, more public fluff.
How do I know this ? several things stop me from saying publicaly without putting myself in obvious peril, but I have a copy of this forensically provable information, with the last entry over a year ago.
tens of thousands of documents, going back 10 years, im sure there is something horrible in there but I lack the political nouse to interpret - that and the sheer volume.
I would love to whistle blow this but cant afford the enemies or the prison time - sensible suggestions please ??
private offshore held email addresses of interested parties preferably, this is something tangible I can just leave somewhere and let someone pickup (i would be that cautious about this)
for legal reasons this post is delusional.
I have come to the conclusion that it is not so much "Astro-Turfing" that Labour is so excellent at but the art of discovering complete f*cking imbeciles and pointing them at any blog-du-jour to spam totally inane and pointless comments until the blog loses all credibility and becomes an object of laughter and derision. Perhaps one of the reasons that paedophiles are being released back into the community is so that the abundance of saliva droolers we see in the above comments can continue to bang out their paranoia on Broadmoor's tethered old Macs, all the while under close-knit supervision from Powell, Campbell and Turner.
Kind of like Crazy People, only with dribbling anonymongs instead the luscious Ms Hannah and company ...
actually i think me message is more for the gf himself so if you could see your way to deleting the post as soon as youve read it and then publish an safe email address i`ll be in touch, the quicker the better, you know this is the same poster from my IP address.
Lotus Notes is also known as a 3 dimensional database, and the email portion is just one of those bases.
If setup on a network, and/or dialup access, it also is a self replicating database, therefore if the above post is true, there is more than one copy of it.
and Guido has a leaked secret document number at the top of the page...
Newsflash - Ed Balls will be on next week's Question Time panel in Doncaster. Details of how to get in the audience and put questions here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/question_time/
All Jedi within 100 miles of Doncaster know their duty....
11:41 is correct, and that doesnt disprove me, not that im seeking approval.
11:44 is also correct but I want a foreign managed email address to send some details to, not something hosted in the EMEA regions.
sorry to be so dramatic sounding but I might as well offload this thing and I have to be cagey. this is something physical with serial numbers and verifiable data contained therin.
Anonymous,
Send it to me if you want
john.cleary@tele2.es
suggestion - if you send it to a link in an airport, then that is not on the PTT lines, its on SITA lines, which have diplomatic status..