PMOS Gives Non-Denial Denial Over Secret Email
On Saturday Guido also called for a correction from the PMOS, the Lobby got the hint, this is today's official note;
Channel Four's Political Editor said that he had picked up from the PMOS an "angry" tone, and did we feel that the police were putting things into the public domain without reporting directly to Downing Street, the PMOS asked the journalist if he was really telling him that police involved in an ongoing investigation were leaking details to the press, because if he was, it was a very serious allegation.
Asked if that could be the only way in which some of the information could have got into the public domain, the PMOS said "you tell me". We believed that any conversations between the parties involved should be private.
Put that we had "rubbished" any idea of alternative computer networks, but the Mail on Sunday and "Guido Fawkes" website had both claimed that they had evidence of alternative email networks in No. 10 that linked up to the Labour Party, the PMOS said that we stood by what we said to ITN. There was only one email system at No. 10.
Asked if it would be possible for someone to "hop on" using a No. 10 computer onto the Labour Party network, the PMOS said again that there was only one email system at No. 10.
Asked further questions about the possibility of an external server, or the possibilities of sending Labour Party emails, and did only one system allow for more than one email address, the PMOS repeated that there was only one email system in No. 10. As the PMOS said on Friday, people in No. 10 could not access hotmail, gmail etc because of security reasons, and he was not aware of anyone who had more than one email address.
Asked if people could send political emails from the No. 10 account, the PMOS replied that he was not going to get into the details of the system. The claim that was put to us was that there was more than one system, and there is not. There is only one, and the police have had access to everything that went through the system.
32 comments:
At Davos, Gordy B described his chums at No. 10 and elsewhere as "operating in the slow lane of the information super highway", which probably explains why the PMOS is blissfully unaware of the simple email alternatives to the "No. 10 System" that Guido lays out for us here. Excellent stuff.
If it were not for Mr Fawkes this information would not have been made public. Keep up the pressure Guideo. Thanks to you the truth will come out one day.
...the PMOS said again that there was only one email system at No. 10
Of course I might have asked, had I been there, "what do the civil servants use then if there is only the Labour Party email server there?"
Erm, I'm no techie but aren't web-based email systems accessible from anyone with internet browser access? Exactly like the link given below?
Perhaps a more pertinent question would have been 'Are staff at no 10 with internet access on their PCs blocked in any way from accessing sites including https:// .....'
Or should I get my coat?
A fine example of a non-denial denial... there may well be only one email system at No. 10 - but that's not the question - the question is, how many email systems are used by people at No. 10? Even if systems like Hotmail, gmail etc. are blocked, there are plenty of other ways to send email - umpteen other hotmail style services, use of their own equipment as you suggest Guido (laptops, PDAs, phones, even text messages) or their own secure VPNs out to other systems that they control.
There's a lot more digging to be done if that's the best 'denial' the PMOS can come up with... :-)
All the best Guido!
Guido, that's fawking brilliant!
The position stated by the PMOS is unambigious.
He says there is only one email system at number 10 and that other email systems cannot be accessed from number 10 for security reasons.
The police could easily check this by simply clicking on www.lpnet.org.uk from a number 10 machine. If the site is not blocked then the PMOS is either misinformed or lying.
Either is worse than being merely evasive.
We have all learned by now that any Labour denial, or statement of any sort, has to be dissected under a microscope in an attempt to discover it's true meaning. They almost always contain a few semantic ambiguities that will provide them with an "out" if and when they are discovered lying at some time in the future. Thus we should be asking what the PMOS means by "e-mail system", perhaps even what they mean by "Number 10" - they probably define some of the rooms set apart for Labour Party workers as being outside the official confines of Number 10, i.e. those parts only used for official government business, or some such nonsense.
Although, just as likely, it is probably simply a lie. They have proven themselves more than capable of doing it in the past. Their base calculation seems to be that the truth is sometimes more politically damaging than to be caught lying at a later date when the headlines have died down.
Bd.
Could Guido ask if Number 10 operates a "Black List" or a "White List" system for blocking HTTP(S) sites?
Im not going to spit on the end of Guidos cock and give it a polish he already gets plenty of that.
Blair is so fucking arrogant and lets face it...THICK, that the stupid twat will have typed (with one finger) an email that will do for him.
Fawkes, if you didn't smell of bacon & cabbage stew with the merest hint of Guinness behind the ears slightly over powering the stench of vintage port upon your gilded breath I could kiss you.
The wazzucks at #10 don't seem to have learned a thing out of all this. Since the world now knows that there is a web based email system sitting on a nulab server somewhere with the usual usernames and passwords, what's the point in all the weasel words.
They must think we're all daft. It really make you want to throw up... preferably over them.
Neat throw-away line about the Charity Commissioners - such a busy little power-broker is our Guido. But the MSM don't make the grade as budding Woodwards or Bernsteins, they've got fat and lazy. If it ain't in a press release, they ain't got a clue. Got the killer instinct of a budgie on valium, that lot.
Interesting that PMOS is as interested in what you are saying, or should that be perturbed by what you are saying, Guido, as what is in the Daily Mail.
Of course, you could always wait a week or two before 'selling out'..imagine what percentage of Bliar's £ 4 million book advance he might be willing to cough up for a bit of 'peace and quiet'....
Dangle that carrot, Mr Fawkes, Dangle that carrot...
Meanwhile our own mole at No 10, Deep Goat, is reportin that Jack Straw, alarmed by the meteoric progress of Peter Hain's challenge, is about to launch his own candidacy for Deputy PM.
Remembers dat you heard it here first. He will be launching with de very punchy slogan - "More Straw" - hopin to attract the Bedouin vote in de East Midlands.
Deep Goat knows all about de Straw, developin........
....people in No. 10 could not access hotmail, gmail etc because of security reasons
And of course that's not a lie because lpnet isn't a public email system like hotmail or gmail, it's a secure private messaging system.
Are the lobby totally technically ignorant or have they just given up trying to get answers out of these tossers.
Come on you "Deep throats". Keep it coming.
But of course Lotus Notes is not an e-mail system!!! Hair splitting TOTAL BOLLOCKS!!!!
One hopes that after the "fall" there will be an investigation and any civil servants who are found to have prostituted their principles will then get "degommered" in best WW1 manner, sans pensions etc., as an example to others.
And let us not forget the really interesting question continues to be, who received the money, distributed the money, and what was it all used for!!!
There is only one e-mail system at Number 10.
But that depends upon what your definition of "is" is.
hubris, n. Insolent pride or security; (Gk tragedy) overweening pride leading to nemesis. So hubristic a.
Nemesis, n. Goddess of retribution; retributive justice, downfall that satisfies this. [Gk. (nemo give what is due)]. (Fowler's Concise Oxford Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1964.)
... she is often the punisher of extraordinary crimes ... (Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, 1849 edition.)
'Deep Goat, is reportin that Jack Straw, alarmed by the meteoric progress of Peter Hain's challenge....'
Surely 'reportin' dat....' - And hasn't 'de elite crew' told Mr Straw about the Guido scoop earlier today...
Keep it real...
Ten-four daddy-o...
the bricks are coming away from Downing Street's defences
they are not getting it
they said no comment
then they commented on ITN
on that alone they are being got
So the PMOS (what is his name again ?) denies everything which the Lobby Journalists specifically ask about, and implies that there is only one, authorised, x.gsi.gov.uk internet web browsing and email gateway operating from Number 10 Downing Street, and that no hotmail or gmail ot private Labour Party webmail could be accessed from Number 10 Downing Street computers.
What about this Pipex block of IP addresses and what seems to be a live internet gateway router:
inetnum: 194.201.189.208 - 194.201.189.223
netname: PMO-NET2
descr: Prime Ministers Office
country: GB
admin-c: DRWH1-RIPE
tech-c: DRWH1-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: AS1849-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered
person: D R W Horsborough
address: Prime Ministers Office
address: 10 Downing Street
address: London
address: SW1A 2AA
address: England, UK
phone: +44 171 930 4433
fax-no: +44 171 925 0917
nic-hdl: DRWH1-RIPE
mnt-by: AS1849-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered
route: 194.200.0.0/14
descr: PIPEX-BLOCK4-7
origin: AS1849
You can ping or traceroute to what appears to be a live internet gateway, allocated to the Prime Minister's Office, which has been used to surf various political blogs and websites in the past.
12 98 98 97 158.43.254.18 pos2-0.cr1.lnd10.gbb.uk.uu.net
13 102 102 104 158.43.150.6 gigabitethernet0-0-0.gw5.lnd10.alter.net
14 99 99 99 194.201.189.211 primmini02-gw.customer.uk.uu.net
Will any Lobby Journalist ask about this tomorrow ?
Will they remember to specifically ask the PMOS about the email and internet systems which were in place in the run up to the 2005 General Election,when the cash or loans were being arranged, rather than the systems which may or may not be physically in place today ?
nice one
The nice thing about this non-denial denial is that whilst such tricks might still work on thick lobby journos even after ten, yes TEN, years they will last exactly two nano seconds once this case gets to court.
I can imagine a crown prosecution lawyer wanking himself silly over the thought of tearing to shreds a defence like the one Blair is flying via his spokesman. The trouble for No.10 is that at every turn they're motivating their enemies and turning former allies against them.
According to reports, it was the (Labour friendly) CPS not the (less Labour inclined) police that first suggested the more serious charges of perverting the course of justice. This non denial is the equivalent of going to a black ghetto in New York and shouting NIGGER! It's exactly the thing not to do if you don't want your enemies to come after you.
If Blair had any sense he'd resign and start genuinely cooperating with the police. It would take all the heat off him. If he goes on as he is it's not just his legacy that's at stake but his liberty, not to mention his earning potential.
Just so people know, that is not a Pipex IP, it's a UUNet IP sitting on Alternet. The reference to a PIPEX block is because a long long time ago, UUnet used to be called Public IP Exchange Ltd (PIPEX). The company known as Pipex today though are not the same Tier ONe provider and in fact a merging of a small offshoot Pipex which was created when UUnet had their BIG problems, and GX Networks.
I'd ask the following questions:
1. Can the PMOS confirm that no PC on the Number 10 official network can connect to any other email system than the official email system?
2. Can the PMOS confirm that no laptop at Number 10 can connect to an alternative wireless network?
3. Can the PMOS confirm that no-one at Number 10 uses a PDA/Blackberry for the purpose of sending emails?
I love that you have to download the lobby notes off the website - whatever happened to your application to join the lobby? You used to bang on and on about that, but you've gone embarassingly silent. LOL
"netname: PMO-NET2"
NET2?
"I love that you have to download the lobby notes off the website"
Doesn't this government ban journalists it doesn't like? Not sure why that would be funny in a democracy.
Well spotted on the "NET2" bit.. although it's prolly just arbitrary in relation to the numebr of CIDR blocks they've bought.
"Can the PMOS confirm that no-one at Number 10 uses a PDA/Blackberry for the purpose of sending emails?"
Didn't Alastair Campbell once send an email by Blackberry to the wrong person?
I recall some time ago, there was an anonymous poster who was so certain that no electronic information could leak out of Downing street without being detected.
Is this still the case?
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