Party Funding : Tory Whips Tell MPs "Shut Up"
Word reaches Guido that Tory MPs have been sent a note telling them to maintain a silence on the issue of party funding, and it is odd that there appears to be a media black-out on the issue from the Tories.
John Redwood appears to have not read the memo.
47 comments:
Since when did Tory MPs pay attention to ...'notes'...
Redwood is right to voice his opinion. The worst result for everybody would be for the Tories to keep quiet and accept state funding in return for an easier ride.
"Since when did Tory MPs pay attention to ...'notes'..."
In the glory days before 1997, when they were small denomination, non-sequential.
What is the alternative to state fundng? Mass membership parties. Well, that an't going to happen...
Redders is absolutely right about this. The stench of a behind-closed-doors stitch up with Phillips is in the air.
Cameron will deserve every particle of shit that will be heaped on him if he sides with Blair on this one and gets the public to pay for his Tosser Within.
Never thought I'd say it, but Redwood's latest article made sense. I think it deserves wider circulation as it's a really brief but comprehensive knife job on arguments for state funding.
Oh God, I'm becoming right wing. I'm sorry mummy.
Having seen Maude's piss poor performance on Newsnight last night, I am not surprised that today the signal is a retreat to silence to precent further embarrassment.
used to think he was a complete twat.not anymore.
he's right,during the 2005 election,I, as a member of the public received mail shots from MH which were two sides of A4 long that I threw in the bin.If your association exec members don't read them,what chance the voting public.they wasted a fortune.
stalins gran,the alternative to state funding is to carry on as we are and let the fuckers go bust.it's not me who loaded up on debt
HaHa, tories reading memo's, i dont think so.
Distinguish between the general issue of how or whether parties ought to be funded (on which Redwood writes, and on which he's right), and the specific question of the sources of particular Tory party funds.
The general issue should be debated by everyone and no-one should be silent.
The specific question(s) should be handled by one person who has the authority to give answers and the authority to seek them from within the party. It is the same as any big PR story in any corporate context: you want to make sure that the story is communicated clearly and unambiguously with misunderstandings corrected and issues clarified. I can't see anything sinister in this at all. Do you want a lot of backbench morons trying to become famous by telling what they heard in the last game of Chinese whispers?
If Guido were to show us the memo then he'd show us that he trusted us to make up our own minds.
I, for one, wouldn't want to end up paying for the Blair woman to have her hair done. I don't see why the taxpayer should be an open cheque book.
Wouldn't want to interfere in an ongoing police investigation... ;¬)
The problem with state funding uis how you apportion it - on votes at the last election? But that means an automatic advantage for the governing party.
Hang on, I've had an idea. How about a one-party state?
I am sure the BBC loves the idea of taxpayers money for Political Parties. After all the principle of force the buggers to pay is held in high esteem there.
As a mere candidate for the Conservative London Mayorals, I have received no such note and can therefore voice an opinion.
Surely the principles involved, whatever the party, are as follows;
1) Democracy thrives when it is grass roots driven and backed.
2) Big money support can be tolerable where there is transparency over where it comes from and openness to criticism about what people are getting in return.
3) No political party should allow itself to be bankrolled by a disproportionate minority, and therefore held at intellectual gunpoint. I include unions in this equation.
4) One of the reasons why the public has demonstrably lost faith in politicians is over the old watchwords "sleaze" and "self interest", which still loiter on the doorstep: the issue cannot therefore be swept under the carpet.
5) This is an ideal time to have an open and honest debate about the pros and cons of the UK, US and continental European ways of doing things, in order to better come up with a clean system.
6) State funding risks a backlash once people realise they are funding political parties with whose views they violently disagree.
7) Whichever funding system that emerges should allow for Goldsmith-type groups to appear in the future if we are to avoid staleness in policy making. A free market in politics prevents the growth of extremism.
8) Maybe we should be asking ourselves if instead of all this, we really should be capping expenditure in elections, lest the alternative is us going increasingly down the route of the US Presidentials spending the GDP of a small country on straw hats and netted balloons.
The same arguments still hold which we used against the development of a budget line funding trans-European parties. And we would do well to consider how in some states that mechanism is used by the establishment to suppress dissenting anti-establishment parties.
We have an opportunity to get this right. Let's not blow it.
No wonder. They're guilty as hell. But we in the Labour Party are above reproach and suspicion; the present hoohah has just been got up by the press and will naturally fade away.
The plans for state funding are well advanced. In order to vote, you will be required to hold a Franchise Licence, the annual cost of which is currently predicted to be £131.50. Collection of the licence will be awarded, after a free and fair bidding process, to Capita plc. Possession of a Franchise Licence will be mandatory for all citizens except (a) those 74 years of age or older, (b) prisoners and lunatics, and (c) voters in certain marginal seats, the identity of which will be determined on an ad hoc basis.
Failure to produce a valid Franchise Licence when an enforcement officer calls will result in an on-the-spot fine of £1000.
This is a much fairer and more reasonable system than the present one, in which self-seeking capitalists can bribe corrupt Tory would-be ministers in return for promises of jam tomorrow.
or perhaps Stalins gran,a two party self perpetuating elite,where they carve up the cash between themsleves for eternity
the reason they want state funding is to stop the rise of the greens,ukip,bnp and even the Lib Dems to a degree.the public are pissed off,just like they were when the labour party rose up.noone is speaking for the people(look ast the turnouts)and the two main parties are haggling over what colour the stationary should be.
Bhownagree you applied some of your considerable intellect to this funding problem. Well done.
On another matter are you related to the late Sir Mancherjee Bhownaggree Conservative MP in early 1900's. Like yourself he was not univerally popular because some of his community called him "Bow and Agree", a comment that applies equally to you for Brown's anus free of dingleberries.
Joyeux Noel as they say in Belguim.
When I wrote recently to my local MP, a Conservative shadow minister, objecting to the idea of yet more state funding of political parties he replied agreeing with me. He said "the key element is transparency. As long as it is clear from where donations are coming, then I do not believe that people should be prevented from making donations to political parties. I am also very dubious as to whether taxpayers` money should be used to fund political parties in order for them to avoid having to solicit large donations."
To my mind Animal Farm, and the stench of snouts in the trough, is with us. On the other hand, if Cameron is thinking more than one step ahead, he proposed the £50k limit expecting that Labour MPs wouldn`t wear it because of the loss of TU funds. But that would be the charitable explanation.
'In order to vote, you will be required to hold a Franchise Licence, the annual cost of which is currently predicted to be £131.50' Said bhownagree
That takes me back to the days of the Poll tax, plenty of people went off the electoral roll radar for a bit. They didn't have a vote but they saved a lot of money.
Herr von Crackers
The term is "griffnuts", not "dingleberries", my dear sir, and as you are speaking of our Best Beloved kindly moderate your language and show suitable deference. Elsewhere on this site I have seen my somewhat overblown (because composed late at night, in a haze of Napoleon brandy after an excellent dinner at taxpayers' expense) eulogy not only mocked but treated with blasphemy!
My Belgian antecedents are irrelevant, for we live now in multicultural Britain. You skate on thin ice if you try that one, matey.
Sir Mancherjee? A Tory, and therefore suitable only for composting.
Merry Winterval to you!
State-funding based on voting past election result is unfair, but not so much for the reason 'Stalin's gran' suggests. If we introduced it now Labour would hardly have much of a funding advantage over the Tories, as there was only a 3% difference in vote share between the two in 2005.
The real reason is how warped that initial election result is anyway. Our current voting system actively discourages – even penalises – the fighting for every vote and seat which would be needed to maximise national vote share, and thus maximise state funding if such a scheme was implemented. Only when voters feel able to cast their ballot for their preferred candidates, rather than in many cases being compelled to waste their vote or vote tactically, will a truer picture of the popularity of each party emerge.
...it is odd that there appears to be a media black-out on the issue from the Tories.
The diffs between Labour and Tories on cash for peerages'n'policy:
1) Tories have done it much bigger.
2) Tories have done it much longer.
3) Tories have done it much more competently.
The crime isn't the crime -- the crime is getting caught. If the Tories weren't even crookeder than Labour on funding they'd have been able to turn up the heat on Bliar even more and he might have been gone by now.
bhownagree, thanks for correcting me. In future I shall refer to 'keeping the griffnuts(of Mr Brown) spick and span' when you propagate the faith on his behalf.
I,unlike your goodself, am of common stock so correct salutation would be Herr van Crackers. In point of fact we left Northern Europe at the time of William and Mary's reign.
I hope it not too long before "Arise Sir Bhownagree" becomes a fact.
Bhownagree
You fucking come over hear from Belgium Via hindustan with your big cigars and champagne socialism and have the fucking cheek to tell us natural borns Brits what to do ?
You Sir are a terrible cunt!
Clearly Redders is the spokesperson on this subject.
Going through the motions of pretending that there is something to discuss and that General Hayden hasn't already stitched up a deal that's acceptable to all the parties.
Just waiting now for the next stitch up to be perpetrated against the electorate, proportional representation and no referendum on europe, just a shot gun marriage.
Tories have done it much more competently.
That goes for everything, because Tories actually have proper jobs before they become politicians. Thats why you should vote for them rather than this bunch of incompetents.
Peter Hitchens
I have emailed your home address in Kensal Rise to the mad axeman, likewise that of your parental abode (we both know where it is). Having come down to London from Hull and disposed of you, Mr. Hirst will then be travelling north to help himself to your mater's heirlooms. I have advised him to use the very excellent hi-resolution satellite images on 192.com to assist in casing the joint.
The word you use to describe me is desperately vulgar, much like yourself.
Yours Hindustanily
The Right Honourable Bhownagree, B.A. Calcutta (failed)
Funny - Francis Maude was openly against party funding on the last Tory Radio interview he did.
Great answer Dave Cameron gave you Guido on Webcameron. Think you should keep asking questions given how much light wasnt shed in his first response.
bhownagree and xmas crackers:
"Tagnuts" or "Dagnuts" are also perfectly acceptable terminology. In Cornwall they say "winnits".
It is a popular Xmas game for all the family to come up with similes, but as yet we ain't done it for anal bunting. I'll be ahead of the hunt when we do.
idle
Dingleberries is Southern Hemisphere word to describe 'anal bunting' - I actually rather like the latter term so in future exchanges with Mr B will refer to his arselicking activities as 'cleaning the anal bunting'.
Mr B is a refined man so on behalf of both of us thank you for this contribution to better language.
More Tax - We're all doomed!!!
"John Redwood appears to have not read the memo."
It was not written in Vulcan - and/or Sec-shaggers were not on the circulation list?
btmktc -
I am delighted you approve of the bunting phrase. Modest though I am, I allowed myself a slight guffaw when it occurred to me.
Treat it as your own - I will have only limited use for it.
The vulgar golfing pun normally used for the fairer sex also springs to mind - Ground Under Repair. Also Winter Rules - the one about being able to lift, clean, and replace your balls. Mandelson will understand that one.
Idle
Crackers here. Not sure where btmktc came from.
You are spoiling me for choice. My armoury for defence against Mr Bhownagree's verbal assaults now well stocked.
Dr Crackers
My vocabulary comprises approximately 27,301 words, all different (except, perhaps, for the homophones, though this may well be a disputed point among philologists). Prominent among these words are choice epithets for describing Conservatives and their bodily functions.
I have learned this evening of the poor quality of your medical education, and thus shall not assume you know any words which might be unfamiliar to, let us say, a student of GCSE Human Biology.
I have also learned from this site that Mr David Blunkett is referred to by Tories not by his proper, legal name but by a highly offensive and flippant nickname which I blush to repeat.
In closing, may I add a non sequitur? It is this. Your sainted Mr Cameron has apparently emulated Jarry's Ubu by (a) removing his conscience from the suitcase where he was wont to keep and and (b) flushing said conscience down the lavatory pan.
Yours omnisciently
His Excellency, Bhownagree of that Ilk
very honoured to have you here sir, if I may so, your excellency, sir
an ever so 'umble Brown voter
He's proper class that bhownagree, you can tell
Your humble and grateful obeisance, both, has been received and noted.
bhownagree ;-) LOL! Keep it up!
Well I Get It At Least:
I presume you're paying tax on it at the appropriate rate. If not, expect a visit from HMRC in the morning. Otherwise, I have no idea what you're talking about, and will thank you to keep your speculations to yourself.
His Most Serene and Exalted Highness, Bhownagree
Is it safe to post now? Has HE gone?
"He reads much;
He is a great observer, and he looks
Quite through the deeds of men."
Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus; and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs, and peep about
To find ourselves dishonourable graves.
Men at some time are masters of their fates:
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves, that we are underlings. (1.2.135)
I can't blog against Gordon anymore,
"There is none but he BHOWNAGREE
Whose being I do fear: and, under him,
My Genius is rebuked; as, it is said,
Mark Antony's was by Caesar."
This acid-tongued philomath has humiliated us all.
bhownagree said...
Is it safe to post now? Has HE gone?
You are impersonating me, sir: a liberty I do not take lightly. My lawyer, Ms Graspe, will hear of this.
Bhownagree
You have correctly observed that my degree is a lowly one earned on site in the jungles through which the mighty Congo flows near the town of Stanleyville. As such I was known as the quinine dispenser.
Your man Brown doth indeed bestride our world like a gargantuan misanthrope and I fear the lean and hungry look in Reid's eyes. Watch for events mid March.
On state funding - I will contesting the new Meon Valley seat as an Independent, who will decide how much funding I will receive? Will the 13,000 votes I won in Stevenage as a Tory candidate count towards how much will be doled out to me. I'm against it,my supporters (quite a few) will back me because they like what I say.Let the 3 traditional parties wither, the voters want new alternatives. Graeme Quar
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