Hung Parliament : LDs Should Learn from the PDs
For Guinness-related reasons too vaguely remembered to go into, Guido is actually a member of a political party* - the Irish Progressive Democrats. They are, it is fair to say, the political ringmasters for the Celtic Tiger despite being a minority party. The party has had the utmost influence over Irish economic policy since their founding twenty years ago, pursuing a liberalising agenda of reducing taxes and red tape. A decade ago when Mary Harney was elected the new Progressive Democrats leader she set out her agenda as: "To lead a crusade of self-reliance which will inspire and energise our people to solve the many problems facing us. Part of this Crusade means less state interference in many aspects of the economy. It means less confiscation by the state of what people earn; it means less bureaucratic red tape that is infuriating small business people, in particular. And it also means less anti-competitive and over-priced state monopolies, which are stifling enterprise. Part of this crusade also means people not always looking to the state to do things for them, but getting on with the job themselves."
Does that sound a bit like Ming's re-launch speech? After twenty years of policies informed by that outlook, Ireland has a high-growth, low tax, enterprise culture. The Irish are now richer per capita than the British with unemployment at 2%, an incredible turnaround - something the LibDem anti-modernisers should reflect upon. The liberal PDs may have kept their more conservative Fianna Fáil coalition partners in power, but they largely got their dynamic programme implemented.
With boundary changes and the Tories rejoining the reality based community, the most likely outcome at the next general election is that the country will have rejected New Labour and all their statist ways, so will the LibDems choose to keep the old regime under new management in power, or will they seek to further a Liberal-Conservative Irish-style agenda? It's a straight choice...
*Incidentally and for the record, my gut political instincts, particularly when drunk, are anarcho-capitalist.
With boundary changes and the Tories rejoining the reality based community, the most likely outcome at the next general election is that the country will have rejected New Labour and all their statist ways, so will the LibDems choose to keep the old regime under new management in power, or will they seek to further a Liberal-Conservative Irish-style agenda? It's a straight choice...
*Incidentally and for the record, my gut political instincts, particularly when drunk, are anarcho-capitalist.
40 comments:
The quote sounds a little like the effusions of Pierre Poujade, but there may be more to the PDs than that, I guess.
I can't read that quote in my head without slipping into an Irish accent "we'll lead a crusade of self-reliance, so we will"
Being held to ransom (PR...) by the LDs does not fill my heart with joy.
A Libdem Conservative coalition?
Not without reform of the Westminster electoral system.
The PDs are currently at 3% in the Irish opinion polls. They are more like a collection of local personality cults than a political party. Apart from Dublin S/SE/Dun Laoghaire there isn't the critical mass of grasping suburban kulaks required to elect PDs on their ideological platform.
All the more amazing that they have had so much influence.
Admittedly, the PDs are few and far between in Wexford.
Just had a look at the PD site - and what about this for sleight of hand:
"The old-age pension target of £100 per week on track for new target of €200 per week".
Ireland has a high-growth, low tax, enterprise culture.
Yes and 18% GDP comes from offshore companies operating invoicing centres in Dublin.......the kind of entepreneurial activity which made Alan Bond so enamoured of the Cook Islands
Like the City of London and Switzerland?
Your point is what? That they should stick to farming?
It's also worth noting that much of the transition of the Irish economy has been made possible by enormous subsidies from the EU, something that has now come to a halt as the economy has developed.
they should stick to farming?
They can't even grow spuds. They should stick to digging trenches.
The EU subsidies had no effect until taxes were cut. Insofar as they allowed for the tax cuts they were useful.
What helps the PDs in holding the balance is the PR system used in the Republic of Ireland. If UK had a similar system, I'm sure the Lib Dems would be turning the scales,
If the behaviour of our local LibDEms here in the London Borough of Waltham Forest is concerned then them supporting a national Tory administration seems pretty unlikely. Despite being offered the majority in Cabinet and Leadership of the Council, for the first time ever, by the Tories they have instead chosen to prop up a failing Labour administration and allow them the majority and the leadership. The only reason given by them for this is that they felt that they lacked the capacity to run things themselves. Totally pathetic!
My Aunts boyfriend has a glass recycling plant in ireland, it exists solely due to the availability of EU grants, i.e. English taxpayers cash not genuine enterprise.
The only thing the Mick has ever produced in huge amounts is priests and nuns, that and Guinness to keep the peasantry happily pissed.
The blood stock industry could be held up as a success story, however, that is nothing more than a money laundering scam.
Sorry poor editing non my part, should say indicative and not concerned.
Matt, I doubt some local policies are a good indicator of what Lib Dems would do in hung parliament. As I'm sure you know, in some places Lib Dems form a coalition with Labour, in other places with Tories. And in some places, like in Rochdale and York, there has even been previously a coalition between the Tories and Labour.
Irish Tiger economy. Merci boucoup(sic) Jacques Delors.
Like the City of London and Switzerland?
Get real Guido..........Dutch Mixers are in The Netherlands not London; and The Cook Islands are heavy duty tax evasion...........Switzerland has manufacturing and engineering and food manufacturing on a scale Ireland can only dream of.
London is where you generate your liabilities - assets you park elsewhere.
The only thing the Mick has ever produced in huge amounts is priests
The Irish National Art Gallery has the world's finest Collection of Potato Prints
Hey, Guido, notable by her absence is a picture of Ms. Harney. The logo's all cheery and oblong and all, but let's all remember that the face of Irish Thatcherism is, well, a rather big one. Without a neck. Think of the outcome of a collision between Ayn Rand and a well-stocked ice-cream van.
Also, FF = Tories is a pretty stupid comparison. European Constitution-writing smoking-banning privatisation-stopping Blair-cuddling Tories, maybe.
I find the Irish charming, its just never a good idea to trust them, little things like refuelling Nazi submarines, blowing the fuck out of British towns and cities, sending their peadophiles over here disguised as priests, stuff like that.
Fuck! I just remembered the worst thing they have ever done to us
Bono and Bob Geldoff!
prawn crackers said: "Irish Tiger economy. Merci boucoup(sic) Jacques Delors."
Did you read this:
"The EU subsidies had no effect until taxes were cut. Insofar as they allowed for the tax cuts they were useful."
Rick said: "Get real Guido..........Dutch Mixers are in The Netherlands not London; and The Cook Islands are heavy duty tax
evasion...........Switzerland has manufacturing and engineering and food manufacturing on a scale Ireland can only dream of."
And how about Luxembourg? Anyway, does the income comes from home or abroad, as long as it means that the unemployement rates and taxes are lower and the incomes per capita higher than in the UK?
I meant: "Anyway, who cares does the income comes from home or abroad, as long as it means that the unemployement rates and taxes are lower and the incomes per capita higher than in the UK?"
What a load of ignorant bigotry.
You can't subsidise your way to high growth and low unemployment. You can only unleash free enterprise to do that - exactly what the PDs helped do.
Tom,
As for FF not being very free market, correct, but they are still the more conservative party - not Tory - conservative. Harney is a tubby, this is about voting not shagging.
Finally, let me remind you that when Europe was in the dark ages and your illiterate ancestors were burning books, Ireland was a land of saints and scholars. When stability returned to Europe, it was Irish scholars who had preserved the books and teachings of classical Western thought, we re-introduced them to Europe after the fall. Ireland having escaped the ravages of the dark ages was instrumental in spreading learning. See How the Irish Saved Civilization.
Finally, if the Irish are so thick, how come you don't know the name of our secret service and yet the Provos managed to mortar MI5 for a laugh?
Haha Guido
Ignorant we may have been but at least out potatoes didn't die.
Indeed you cannot subsidise yourself to high growth and low unemployment, however somebody else can.
I am not anti bogtrotter I admire your cheek
http://workforall.net/English/size_of_government.gif
Note that Ireland was getting subsidies long before 1985.
Oh yes, the PDs, how wonderful they are. Tonight the main item of news was the fact that the Irish health service is the second worst in the EU, only just head of Lithuania. The PD's leader, Mary Harney, is the current health minister, and denied there was any problem on the news. "Bollocks of a jockey" is the phrase that comes to mind.
Good on you young Fawkes. Mary Harney is doing a good job. FF would not have introduced the kind of reforms that the PDs pushed through. The LDs here could learn a thing or two from the Irish PDs. Has the West of Ireland done well from the reforms. It was a very poor part of the country during the 40s,50s,60s and 70s. Hope all is well there now. I think that old Sean Lemas did a good job in the 60s. Can we bring him back.
One of the sources of PD support is a small po-faced, sanctimonious minority who give the PDs a 2nd preference in order to 'keep Fianna Fáil honest'. This has taken half the fun out of Irish politics. We used to lambast the Soldiers of Destiny for their corruption, and then vote for the cute hoors anyway out of admiration for the ingenuity of their scams.
Ireland has a Secret Service ..... wow you really do learn something new every day on Guido!
An inspiring example. If only the Liberal Democrats were truly liberal and democratic instead of being an anti-tory tribal sect motivated as much by spite as anything...
There are truly liberal and democratic Lib Dems, and they're gaining ground.
We'll swop you any two of our politicians for Denis Leamy, the Irish 8. He really looks the business.
I'm rather impressed by the Progressive Democrats - I'd join them in a heartbeat if the LibDems were to assume this 19th Century-ish sort of Liberalism.
The Irish Secret Service only has enough budget to employ about 10 people, so it's not too difficult to keep it secret. You'd have difficulty mortaring the headquarters of an organisation that doesn't even have a headquarters (I expect its staff share facilities with Army Intelligence and Special Branch).
What you all, Guido included, have to realise that the Liberal Democrats are not, and have never been a "liberal" party in the European sense (i.e. right-wing). The LibDems have always been a solidly social-democratic party. Their purpose is to provide an alternative social-democratic "brand" to Labour. The vast majority of LibDem members are social-democrats. Perhaps the LibDems would have been far better not calling themselves "liberal" at all when the party was founded, but then again in the UK it's only the right-wing blogosphere that equates the word "liberal" with the right.
Ironically the small Liberal Party that still exists i.e. without the social democratic element is to the Left of the current Lib Dems.
One would have thought that the SDP would have shifted the Liberals to the Left during a merger rather than to the Right. The SDP might have been on the Old Labour Right but Labour was clearly to the Left of the Liberals in those days.
Does that make any sense?
Anon
The Liberal Party that you speak of is off the political radar.It has about 1400 members and is stuck in a time-warp of the merger.
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